NEW ON THE POD: Here's a fun one: the CEO of a value-based enablement company just told me that "value-based care" is a dead term. Just 10 minutes into this episode, Tim Elliott, CEO of Navvis Healthcare @NavvisPopHealth told me VBC as a term has run its course. We’re now entering a new categorical discussion more broadly around "performance" whether that’s commercial risk or full cap MA. Here were some gems from the discussion which makes the broader convo worth your time: 1. Payment innovation will always come out of the government. Tim's conviction is that DRGs came from CMS, and the next durable models, commercial and governmental alike, will too. Not the private market. 2. He's a fan of moving more into mandatory risk models. While most operators are bracing against mandatory, Tim thinks the mandatory direction is exactly where we need to go and would tell CMMI to keep pushing. 3. LEAD is a no-go right now for most systems. Navvis’ analysis with their partners anticipates very few of them will move to LEAD as it stands today. Benchmarking and settlement math doesn't pencil yet, so it's enhanced-track MSSP until they get a few more reps. 4. Stop leading with the comp model. Popular belief (that I asked Tim about) is that nothing changes in healthcare until physician comp changes. Tim pushed back on this notion hard. At SSM Health, he led with culture first and comp later, and argued you can get pretty darn far before you ever touch the RVU. 5. FTEs are becoming FTAs, meaning full-time equivalent agents. His advice was to start drawing your org chart with agents on it. Pretty interesting mental model and paradigm shift. I pushed back in a few spots and agreed in more. Either way it's the most clear-eyed conversation I've had on where these models are actually headed. Links below. Give it a listen and tell me where Tim's right and where more nuance matters. Apple: Spotify: 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐌𝐏𝐒 • 09:10 — Tim retires "value-based care" on air (the term has run its course, and he'll tell you why) • 12:25 — The CHF bed that paid for itself — a value play with zero VBC contract attached • 24:00 — Lead with culture, not comp (the SSM sequencing call I pushed back on) • 41:00 — Why LEAD is a no for most of Navvis's book — spoiler: the settlement mechanics • 46:59 — Where the capital actually goes — ambulatory, and Ascension's AMSURG close as the tell • 49:36 — FTEs to FTAs: put your agents on the org chart — free idea, come get it