Anthropic and OpenAI slammed the this week on secondary transactions of their shares as both AI labs race to list. To help @jason and @alex unpack the market-moving news, investors @jefielding @davemcclure and @lessin joined our venture capital panel to make plain which Anthropic investing vehicles are legit, and which may be fake. The group also dug into software moats, large venture funds pressuring smaller firms, the future of LP capital, and the IPO market! 0:00 Guest introductions 1:30 Guest introductions 2:36 Anthropic voids unauthorized SPV trades 9:23 Accredited investor reform & the SEC sophisticated investor test 9:40 Quo (formerly OpenPhone) - Quo gives you a clean, modern way to handle every customer call, text, and thread all in one place. Try it free at 12:25 Naval's USVC closed-end fund as a workaround 17:23 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at and use code TWIST for 10% off! 18:30 Pro-rata rights battles: when Series A investors push seed investors out 20:18 Grasshopper Bank: Time is money. Don't waste either. Go to and get an exclusive $500 cash bonus just for opening an account. 29:55 Pilot: Focus on your product, let Pilot handle your bookkeeping. Pilot provides the most reliable accounting, CFO, and tax services for startups and small businesses. Head to and get $1,200 off your first year. 31:05 Storing wealth in stories vs. cash flows 35:01 Cerebras and Fervo Energy IPOs — meaningful liquidity? 38:36 Will SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI IPOs redistribute capital or compound it? 46:40 The $15M Series A founder who returned the money because of Claude 50:43 Should founders pivot or return capital when the world changes? 57:25 OpenAI's $6.6B tender and Shruti Gandhi's viral SF cost-of-living tweet 1:01:07 Intercom rebrands to Fin: the AI-first late-stage pivot 🎥 Watch the full episode here 👇