What do writers talk about when they get together? I was curious, so I arranged a conversation between two of the best writers I know: Elif Shafak and Robert Macfarlane. There's something mystical about both of their work. It's like they've found a way to transcend the limits of reason and tap into something deeper and more imaginative. Elif is the president of the Royal Society of Literature and has written 21 books, while Robert is a professor at Cambridge who writes about the wonders of the natural world: rivers, mountains, trees, and birds. Timestamps: 0:44 Turning feelings into words 4:58 Linear vs. non-linear writing 9:05 Listen well to write well 20:25 Why write about nature? 24:21 Language, rhythm and cadence 29:07 Do writers need to be bored? 35:43 Bad writing advice 43:23 The limits of reason 47:56 Give readers a new way to see 50:25 Find the big in the small 57:54 How to become a better writer I've shared the full conversation with Elif Shafak and Robert Macfarlane below. If you'd rather watch it on YouTube, or listen on Apple / Spotify, check out the reply tweets.