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Nate
@Natan_benish
Co-founder @longdotxyz /@joinlong_ Real world markets. NFA
2.8K Following    27K Followers
Wanted to run a proper tweet where I cover many questions regarding LONG. Bookmark this, it’s going to be quite in depth. Before I start, I want to clarify that this is an educational effort. One of our core values with LONG is not to look down on our users but actually equip them with the right knowledge and prove another type of playbook can exist in the space. There is no reason for us to be defensive(esp not on tech) LONG proves itself every day and we will keep doing so. I also think there is a fine line between slightly disingenuous FUD vs critical thinking, so pay attention to it as well. #1# Why is LONG optimizing for liquidity as the moat with stock pairs and generally? Main problem in the space = not lack of motion but lack of stability (that drives rotation and lack of conviction) Deep liquidity solves two things: bundling and supply control are very expensive + the market can absorb extreme periods of volatility. Deep stock liquidity creates a black hole or a magnet where a LONG pair effectively becomes a secondary market for the tokenized stock and keeps a high % of circ (demonstrated in many pairs) This is the biggest pure “DeFi” flywheel and is similar to how network effects evolve around lending protocols, DEXs like Uniswap and so on. Stock liquidity is a moat that enables users to become “market makers” and share the upside of any downstream effect coming from it (increased trading activity on the stock itself, any new utilities like lending, and simply being a source for arb) #2# How exactly are stock pairs correlated with their underlying stocks? DEX pairs have a sell side and a buy side. With stock pairs, the buy side is the new token and the sell side is the tokenized stock. When the stock goes up, the USD value of stock liquidity goes along with it. This is exactly how majors were able to bootstrap the trenches in the early days of Sol + ETH. The major or stock going up = the Fed printing new money supply or giving stimulus. In practice: - If the stock went up by 20%, there is now 1.2x more stock liquidity in the pool, so selling the same token amount will give 1.2x more in USD value(rule of thumb) - This also means the impact on the chart is becoming smoother - What makes it more impactful is the depth of liquidity. If it’s 10k worth of total stock liquidity, it wouldn't matter because a 5k trade will drain the pool completely -LONG pairs are not just super liquid generally, they are also ranked as the largest sources of stock liq for the tokenized stock pools(AI is the 2nd largest source of NVDA on RH) #3# Two sides of the same coin: How do arbitrage and price coupling actually play out onchain when the stock price rises? Something VERY important to keep in mind. AI priced in NVDA and NVDA priced in AI are two sides of the same coin. You can’t have a significant depeg between the implied price of NVDA in AI vs NVDA in USDG, and the same applies to AI in NVDA vs AI in USDG. Take the following scenario: NVDA just went up by 5%, the oracle updates immediately, and now there are 2 sec for the new NVDA price to update onchain. An arb race starts: 1. Arb starts with buying AI on the AI/USDG pool (front-running on a stale NVDA price) 2. AI is being sold on the AI/NVDA pool, receiving NVDA 3. The arb bot now holds X NVDA they bought at a discount 4. The arb profit depends on how fast they can sell it on the updated NVDA/USDG pool + an optimized sell size This is a bit of a simplistic flow because, in effect, this is happening 24/7 and AI/NVDA is effectively a coordination mech to keep prices in sync. The more NVDA liq there is on the AI/NVDA pool, the more predictable this arb can be and the more “utility” builds into AI/NVDA just by being a large source of liq. This is not simple reflexivity but more of a compounding long-term game. Exactly the same effect takes place when NVDA dumps, but in this case it’s actually helping the AI (USD price) absorb volatility in a much smoother way (happened a few weeks ago when NVDA had the 1st 7d down streak since ‘22 and AI actually went up) one can think about what might happen when we drop the assumption that the price of onchain NVDA or any stock follows the stock market, and the price of onchain NVDA is actually driving the arb offchain (I’ll leave it as an exercise for the readers) #4# The LONG term game is dist >> fee capture/dividend The only way for an asset like AI to go up is having consistent flows of net new marginal buyers that are willing to buy at a higher price. This is typical growth. Every single incentive we can place on top of it gets stronger when the asset becomes bigger. A good way to think about it is stock dividends. An early-stage stock that starts handing out dividends over reinvesting into higher growth is simply sacrificing these gains. Having an asset like AI at 1b would be correlated with the ability to capture more value back to holders, whether through “dividends”, voting rights or NVDA accumulation. It won’t necessarily be a 50% APY but more similar to 1-3%, with real size (NVDA did 6b in dividends last quarter and it was just $0.25 per share) #5# Why do AI pools with USDG and ETH have so much vol and is it good? Part of it goes back to my prev point regarding arb, the other part is also all sorts of AI pairs. Having an AI/AI-pair makes it cheaper to go from USDG→AI→pair vs USDG→NVDA→AI→pair. A few immediate positive effects: 1. We already internalize this effect with AI pairs as fees remove more AI from circ regardless of whether it was routed via the main AI/NVDA pool. It also locks more AI in uncorrelated pools 2. More vol = more fees to external LPs = higher incentive to provide more liq to back AI on any pool There is no perfect fee/hook that can fully eliminate it (and it might be undesirable) for two reasons: 1. If we were to relaunch AI with 0.15%, anyone can still set up a pool with a 0.1% fee. These undercuts are very common and it’s a race to the bottom type of situation 2. You need extremely centralized and active LP management. I don’t think anyone would have wanted LONG or any launcher to have the option to just rug the entire LP #6# Is it possible to 10x NVDA accumulation or have more fee and vol capture ? Yes! Take, for example, some of our more active LP actions: we’ve added 200k worth of NVDA as a sell wall on the AI/NVDA pool. Yesterday we did something similar with 200k worth of LongX assets. Adding these into the community vault, for example, would have increased the total NVDA worth by 2x. There are dozens of other ways to do it with more sophisticated mechs. And it reminds me of the early days of the vault when users asked why we didn’t just use a buyback vault instead. This goes back to my prev point: the potential of monetization via fees is capped by the size of the asset. Anything we can do today to grow AI will pay 10x more in the future when we would want to start rolling it out. #7# “If you don’t know where the yield is coming from, you are the yield” Why is LONG not supporting reflections out of the box? Note that all of the prev points about how easy it is to undercut high-tax pools, how liquidity capture is the moat, and how organic non-incentivized growth is the real key apply even more strongly to the typical reflection mech. We think the sort of DeFi summer APY maxxing is a not part of our vision of stock pairs. We want users to buy early and hold, not because they can farm fees (which can be done on any yield-style protocol even a stable pair) We want them to buy and hold because they want to align with the stock and grow a movement around it. Generally: High-yield products in crypto have ended up dying The PMF for yield is actually super solid yield (the biggest vault on RH is USDG with 3% APY) I think this is a bit like creator fees. Incentivized vol over sustainability, and it’s so damn easy to just buy 20% at low FDV and have a no-lose option forever, then dump to move to the next as vol decays. Hope you were able to go through it! :) LONG.
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onchain AI. breaking it down a bit into numbers and other angles a simple way to think about this is as a $200k buyback, but it’s more like a high conviction bet on AI companies growing(and @ArtificiallyInu being able to index it) with the way we designed the liquidity around these pairs, it can create a sink for millions worth of AI TVL wise, the AI/NVDA3X pool holds ~20% of the entire circulating supply of NVDA3X, forcing some NVDA3X trades to route through the AI pool the other angle here is that a healthy level of leverage can increase reflexivity with NVDA (a rough rule of thumb is that NVDA3X targets 3x NVDA’s daily move) I saw some come community members concerned weather the connection with NVDA is too weak, the answer is we there are variety of tools that can help increase or decrease this connection! iterative approach is the way to go. if you look at NVDA as a stock, it’s being priced like an AI index. when major GPU consumers like Anthropic hit new growth records, NVDA stock might rise too it’s super interesting to try to replicate this effect in more novel ways with the tools custom onchain markets provide. LONG.
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we are going to break every possible ceiling and create generational assets stock by stock. just settled in a new place. sharing something personal. around 1.5 mo ago I moved my entire life into a new state left family, close friends even my girl. I did it because it was the optimal thing for LONG I didn't have to but I did, we are a very small team but we generate a lot of impact by being optimistic about our ability to change the world to the point of almost being delusional. the mission is too big and we will keep pushing every single day like it's day 1. now back into shipping we still have one thing to nail today. LONG.
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A perspective: - LONG pioneered stock pairs, and we did it on Robinhood Chain. The first ones to take RWAs seriously and the biggest retail finance brand in the world. -We built network effects from 0. No official amplification, no partnerships, no major exchange listings(testament for PMF + extremely fair and organic approach) - We are leading on stock pairs. $1.5b+ in RWA volume, millions in TVL. We are writing the playbook. - LONG stock pairs are the most liquid pairs + leading on mcaps across the space(and actually have correlation with the stock instead of thin LP) - LONG stock pairs are the most held assets (for example check fomo) - LONG is the first platform that optimizes for PVE and price sustainability, with holders who can actually hold and a team that can iterate on making it better. - Produced the highest number of runners in recent times? (and they are still running) - The highest ratio in history of total volume to number of launches. - AI has had more 70% dips than I can count. It survived everything and grew out of it(literally broke ATH just a few days ago) - We had MEME becoming the center of the tokenization debate. - We had BONER be the first one to engage with a public company CEO. - We have cracked builders and OG communities that slow cook assets like MOO SCHIFFY SPACEHOOD (and many more!) - We have an app that real humans actually use, with 100k weekly active users. Mark my words, rotation between metas, chains, and assets will not impact LONG users once we hit a few milestones(that's our goal since day 1 not being just another launcher who compete on the same pie) We will build our own distribution. We will not stay still and wait for the "real" bull market or the next leg up. We will bring it ourselves with SHEER willpower and it's gonna be beautiful for our early adopters. Trust the process and never stop believing. LONG.
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ETH and BTC are up over the weekend. During bull majors tend to front run the stock market. This was $NVDA on the last trading day(good alignment with Trump’s admin) Would be interesting to watch markets tomorrow. LONG.
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I want to make something very clear. There is NOTHING that will break my will to grow LONG into a generational platform along with its assets and communities. No event in my personal life, macro or majors nuking. It's evidently clear to me: 1. RH chain is here to stay and we keep pushing it (with many more other cracked teams focused on diff areas) 2. We will keep laser focus on RWA pairs. No short term side quests. "There is no other meta" 3. We are mission driven and you simply can’t kill a movement 4. We are only getting started The space is still trapped in a zero sum mindset, believing that one chain, ecosystem, or asset needs to fall for another to rise. There is a reason why launchers peaked somewhere a in '24 and were not able to scale. With each peak being mostly correlated with mini bull cycles. It's driven by an excessive focus on who controls existing flows + vol vs how to bring net new use cases and users. For LONG the focus is on the latter. LONG eco is still very much in its infancy. I feel everything just like you do. I live and breathe the charts, waking up multiple times each night to check them and monitor sentiment. From time to time it's like having a baby with a fever, it can be very scary. You have to step in, monitor, and act, but under no circumstances should you lose control (obv not giving up thats not even an option) On another note, we’ve absolutely cooked up a much improved app experience, from fixing bugs in wallets and the token list to adding new LONG PVE filters. these will be going live soon. Don’t forget: we don’t just tweet we know how to build and innovate. More next week. LONG.
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tokenized stock liquidity is the moat. concentration of liquidity and flows into the highest quality assets like AI is antifragility LONG.
Trade and launch stock based assets on the most liquid platform in the space. Built for PVE on @RobinhoodCrypto LONG.
wdyt is going to happen when stock traders will find out about LONG stock pairs? new form factor. LONG.
You work for 40 years to have $1M in your retirement account. Meanwhile, somebody put $20k into a meme coin a few days ago and is now he is worth $10,000,000. and him name is Dumb lmfao. Nothing is real.
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gLONG some updates: 1. We entered a sprint where we are going to push a bunch of fixes on the webapp over the weekend (faster loads, wallet connection fixes, trading, and generally making the experience on long much smoother) 2. We are also going to push "PVE" feats like ticker locks much further the goal is to make sure an average trader on LONG will never get into a pvp (not just the same ticker but even similar semantics, images etc) this is more like a dynamic proactive approach a cybersecurity team would take your ability to counter threats is mostly a byproduct of how fast you can tweak stuff in an evolving adversarial environment. 3. VERY important I already went on calls with a bunch of teams and am reaching out to more of them. LONG is not a launcher but an incubator our goal is to make sure top pairs and their teams have a clear direction around how to differentiate themselves and build a unique offering (think the YC of RWA pairs where every pair is like a startup that needs to build its own moat) will get to more teams stock by stock. 4. Once we get onto stable ground we will start pushing very aggressively on new feats including more compounding flywheels for AI and other pairs. BUT I do think flywheels (aka meme fi) work the best when dist is getting stronger. This is why I'm spending time getting on pods spreading the msg. There is still an extremely big pocket of sideline capital within crypto that can be onboarded into LONG. Hopefully within the next few weeks we can start breaking out of CT native dist and start onboarding completely net new flows this is the main way I think about "PVE" making the pie bigger and it has been our north star since day 1 (the thesis is that stock pairs are a new form factor that can break out of CT) This will be the 1-1000 moment for LONG.
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might share some early stage alpha. let's win! LONG.
Now Loading... Nate Benish, Founder of LONG Today @ 3:00PM PST
One interesting feat of @RobinhoodCrypto stock tokens is the way dividends work. These ERC20 have a “multiplier” which set up the value of 1 tokenised share. If NVDA grows by 10% over a year (from dividend dist) the multiplayer would 1.1 Btw I think the current dividing yield is ~1% can be significant with the depth of liq And it’s fully automatic. LONG.
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Dividend benefits for Stock Tokens are getting an upgrade. Dividend benefits are now applied automatically on the ex-dividend date instead of weeks later on payment day. That means more immediate stock-equivalent economics from day one, no dividend dilution after the ex-date, and tighter pricing. Already live across most Stock Tokens, with more to come 🔥
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Let me give you a stat. AI now has ~20k tokenized $NVDA shares. ~45k holders. So roughly 0.5 share per holder. An individual with $1 who has never traded stocks or had a brokerage account(or has no access to one) can join with zero barriers to an extremely liquid asset that provides 0.5 share per owner on average. This is what OG memes were about: a fair shot to enjoy the upside by simply holding onto your conviction. This time, conviction compounds into greater reflexivity with the stock. These will get more interesting as we start seeing fewer restrictions on US trading and more rights being baked into tokenized equities. This is what LONG unlocks. A new form factor for stock ownership and distribution.
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Today more than anything LONG 🇺🇸 Every public company will have a leading stock based community on LONG. Stock by stock.
Tokenization is coming to America. Thanks to the SEC’s leadership, Americans can start to reap the benefits of tokenization: instant settlement, 24/7 trading, fractionalization by default and more. It’s a good day for US innovation.
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gLONG Even now. The market is still extremely underpricing the LONG eco. Keeping the underdog mindset is important we don’t get comfy at any point we keep pushing against all resistance. Reminds me of how at the end of last year I pitched stock pairs to plenty of crypto VCs and got 0 follow ups. But we kept moving. Understand this: the Long community owns one of the most powerful ideas in crypto’s history(arguably in finance) we have the conviction to push higher and stronger. We will win. LONG.
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10x bigger. LONG.
LONG has surpassed $1.4B in total trading volume across tokenized stocks and spot perps on @RobinhoodCrypto - $2m in USDG deposits on @Lighter_xyz via LongX - $14.5m in stock TVL, roughly 9% of all stock TVL onchain LONG.
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Green* Monday on the Green chain. LONG.
Just understand how locked in we are that it took a msg from a terminal we work with to even find about it. Many are going to lose all of their aura by doing everything they can to “vamp” or weaken LONG. My suggestion is to join onboard instead. We will keep pushing for PVE and focus on our inner strength. Till every single holder on LONG will win beyond imagination stock by stock.
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Seeing some scams and impersonations on new shiny chain. To be clear LONG has only one app and we will keep building exclusively on Robinhood. There is no “LONG” platform token only Longfolio