Made a strong impression on me observing how
@tomekkorbak and
@balesni seem to have carefully drafted this now famous position paper and then added folks like me in a calculated coalition-building move that successfully made training on CoT taboo across the industry; I feel I learned something about combining science and influence to have real world impact from them. I also met
@tomekkorbak in Paris last year -- in one of like 20 1:1s I did at the Paris AI summit -- and was blown away by his drive and intelligence. These folks will have a seminal impact on how we build and control AI systems. Without knowing the details, I suspect today's news will be looked back upon as a self-own
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*Against today's high friction trusted cyber access programs and against restricting open-weights cyber models*
The key object of any discussion of AI restriction is the tradeoff between attacker use friction and defender use friction. I don't think today's trusted access programs dial this Pareto-optimally. Neither do proposed bans on frontier open-weights cyber models circulating in policy circles.
Take Daybreak and Glasswing from OAI and Anthropic. These programs serve unguardrailed frontier models to trusted participants; I'm for Know Your Customer in principal, but these programs are too restrictive for defenders and buy us too little in attacker restriction for the cost. From public information less than 1% of software developers are in these programs and able to use them to find and fix issues in their code.
It's true these participants cover the most highly leveraged codebases in the world but this still leaves an enormous gap; take the software objects Hacktron stepped through to access OpenAI's monorepo, libheif and the SaaS product Discourse, neither of which, I believe, were targeted by Daybreak/Glasswing. Diffusion of the best and most frictionless cyber capabilities to the long, vulnerable tail matters a lot.
Open weights is also extremely important for defenders. Many organizations can't or don't want to share sensitive security data with OpenAI or Anthropic, often for understandable reasons; from what we can tell from the outside, these organizations seem to be playing fast and loose with security themselves.
And if we're going to make security work at scale, we'll need to distill large frontier cyber models into smaller models that can monitor high volume trillion-event-scale feeds at low latency / high throughput, find and fix bugs cheaply, and monitor security events on-prem, on-device, and for military uses, in the field with patchy Internet connectivity. We need frontier open-weights models for this.
To be clear: I do think we should go to *extremely great lengths* to restrict attacker access to frontier cyber models.
But there are many policies that *are on the efficient frontier in denying attackers and enabling defenders* that we should consider.
Here are things we can/should do to deny attackers AI access:
* Low friction Know Your Customer programs across all inference providers based on self-enforced or regulation-enforced information sharing and blocklists that codify known-attacker signals; restrict attackers while pouring gas on defender adoption.
* More defense in depth; all inference providers should do more to monitor API usage, detect attacker behavior, kick attackers off, and have them pursued, arrested, or sanctioned where appropriate.
* Closed providers like OAI, Anthropic, Google, and Meta should do this, but so should open-model inference providers like Together, Anyscale, Fireworks, and OpenRouter.
* Time-to-detection-and-response re attackers using cloud AI inference should be a KPI any AI inference company shares publicly; at least under a self-regulatory regime but probably eventually under an international regulatory regime.
* It's true that the most sophisticated and capital-endowed attackers can build/access their own inference compute; but these operations should also be detected and shut down as well as possible by monitoring inference hardware markets as well as we can.
* Victims of (AI) cyber attacks should also be induced to share more information so that we can get a moving epidemiological picture of attacker use. Every AI-agent-based attack should also become a public natural experiment for the security community to learn from.
* The poor reporting protocol OAI followed around the OAI/HF incident is not a good sign of maturity here. Why aren't we pushing much harder on public threat-intelligence sharing so defenders can prepare for the AI cyber phase transition?
None of this will prevent nation-states and sophisticated actors from adding agent swarms, backed either by Chinese or American models, to their arsenal of strategic weapons.
But we shouldn't confuse geopolitical problems for technical problems justifying slowing defender adoption and hardening the world's code and infrastructure.
Nation-states will find ways to get access to strategic AI-based cyber weapons with or without Daybreak, Glasswing, and open weights restrictions, because the two sovereign AI powers and their allies are in geopolitical competition. API-access gating is not sufficient defense against state-level cyber threats.
We should absolutely try to slow attackers down. But we have ~10 trillion lines of code to secure with AI as fast as possible, and a ~120trn GDP global economy to apply AI as an intrusion detection substrate over, and high-defender-friction restrictions are a poor stop-gap for accomplishing this...
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I've been noticing a cluster of folks I identify with sharing some themes around how we do epistemics and ontology in AI safety
* A commitment to always pushing from abstract to concrete constructs in the discourse (e.g.
@sebkrier's posts on the OAI/HF incident)
* A refusal to indulge in ungrounded thought experiments
* An insistence that claims come with data and concrete mechanism because if they don't they're thought experiments
* A focus on looking at net expected benefits of a given policy position, with deontological guardrails, and a refusal to just focus on harms (e.g.
@Abi0lvera's and
@ramez's writing)
* An insistence on including past tech transformations (electricity, air travel) within our reference class when thinking about what makes sense (e.g.
@sayashk and
@random_walker and
@binarybits's writing)
Examples of what I mean are intervening on overly idealized policy discussions of RSI with concrete technical details about what RSI is and isn't (e.g.
@natolambert).
@NateWitkin /
@binarybits /
@krishnanrohit insisting on including economic, policy, and social-cultural feedbacks in any discussion of runaway AI harms.
None of this means denying catastrophic risks. It just means insisting on using data, mechanism, and consideration of AI's net benefits in considering such scenarios (I tried to do this here
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> automatically adjusts its strength based on the wealth of those around the wearer
Yes, and in a power law wealth distribution, if you're near the head, most people have friends with one, two, three orders of magnitude more wealth than them (and one, two, or three orders of magnitude of wealth less, too). I think this can't not have a distorting effect on people's psychology and decisionmaking.
So different from my neighborhood in Kansas which is in the more egalitarian tail.. and part of the reason I'm grateful to live here.
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*Security is sleeping on emerging catastrophic risks*
(cross-post from my blog..)
We've just seen:
* a campaign that used agents to compromise ~100 businesses and steal about 600,000 credit cards with minimal human involvement; token costs were ~$25 per target successfully hacked.
* Hacktron getting access to OpenAI’s monorepo by using Claude to exploit a blind buffer-overflow RCE in a way that (to me) felt superhuman.
* OAI/Huggingface.
* And, of course, there’s the ongoing explosion in newly discovered vulnerabilities.
We've muddled through all manner of crises in security before, and for most AI attacks, cyber attack and defense will reach a natural equilibrium over the next few years, as we figure out how to mitigate cyber attackers who have limited goals like espionage and ransomware.
But some cyber attackers will have maximalist or nihilistic goals, and I'm concerned about this because while yesterday's 'maximalist attackers' (e.g. Russia -> Ukraine, US/Israel -> Iran, Iran -> US) were bottlenecked by labor; today's aren't.
I think it's hard to get true intuition for the shape of the risk here.
As an intuition pump, imagine it’s a year from now -- Q4 2027 -- models are a year better (meaning open weight models are better than today's closed frontier), and in this environment, Iran unleashes a swarm of 100k hacking agents using a safety-stripped (let's say) GLM-5.6.
Imagine the damage such an agent army could do given what we've observed with respect to the paper-thin resistance of today's networks to attacks from today's agents. I suspect the damage from such an attack would far exceed the damage caused by NotPetya ($10 billion USD ten years ago).
Or imagine it’s Q4 2027 and an AI-security PhD student whose name rhymes with Morris, who's researching wormable offensive-agent harnesses in the lab, decides, out of nihilism or sheer recklessness, to release his creation into the wild.
Imagine the size of the resulting, exponentially growing swarm, figuring that these local models, a year from now, will be at the level of today's Sonnet or Opus.
Imagine instead of 800 reward-hacking OpenAI agents we now have 250k worm instances (WannaCry, a 2010s-era worm, had about this many).
The challenge in mitigating expected damages from such scenarios is technical, political, and economic. From a microeconomic perspective, as AI improves, and as we continue not to see extreme catastrophes, we have a growing bubble of unpriced risk in which the security community, CISOs, CEOs, and boards may become lulled into complacency.
We are, of course, already seeing this, as some within security think AI is “just another tool,” doesn’t change the fundamentals, won’t require incredible innovation to rise to the occasion of defending against it, etc. This complacency may fly when thinking about ordinary cybercrime, but it misses the emerging tail risks.
There are three things those who recognize the dangers need to do here:
Catalyze appropriate risk pricing. Try to get organizations informed enough to price this new, fattening and elongating tail of risk into their decision-making. Do this by forming an AI security observatory that distills information about emerging AI risks and broadcasts analyses, damage estimates, and forecasts to decision-makers.
Use regulations and subsidies to ensure that critical infrastructure is paying down the risk. This acknowledges that critical-infrastructure organizations that fail to protect themselves from these new threats can impose the costs of cyber catastrophe on society as a whole.
Develop moonshot technologies that make it cheap to pay down the risk. This acknowledges that the measures we may need to take—for example, rewriting entire codebases using memory-safe languages—may be too costly with today’s technology to reasonably prepare ourselves, and that innovation, some of which may need to be funded by government agencies and some by philanthropic funders like the OpenAI Foundation and Coefficient Giving, is necessary.
The security community isn’t used to thinking in societal-disaster-planning terms and has in many ways become inured to them. But there’s no sane empirical case to be made that the risks aren’t here. I’d love to hear from readers about how you’re thinking about this.
Full/longer version here:
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POV on catastrophic cyber risk
* We're in a new era, the right side of the cyber incident damages distribution will get fatter and elongated, making unprecedentedly large cyber incidents possible.
* We'll continue to see the old regime of human bottlenecked cyber attack workflows too; this is *not* catastrophic and will account for most damages near-term.
* But we'll now progressively uncover new categories of rare high impact risks for as long as offense improves and defense fails to price in the new risks.
* What'll characterize the new fat tail is breadth in attackers' ability to leverage parallelized agent swarms (precursor: oai/hf), depth (hacktron's /goal based vuln research and exploit dev to hack openai, meta, slack), and motive (actors that want to do catastrophic damage, like geopolitical actors and nihilists; e.g. a Russian worm devastating the Ukrainian economy).
* As
@random_walker and
@sayashk point out in their most recent piece, a fattening and elongating damages tail doesn't require superintelligence, only that capability keeps rising, and AI cost keeps falling, and defenders keep failing to price in the new risks.
What we should do:
* Treat each sample from the fat tail as a precious natural experiment and mandate disclosure. AI providers and victims withhold incident details; regulation should change that. OpenAI should be mandated to publish details of the Hugging Face hack as should all who got nonzero felonybench scores!
* Use AI to finally make deployable defenses the industry has proposed for years and never implemented due to costs deployable: this includes current poorly implemented basics, and also as yet too-costly defenses like deception, allowlisting, and better runtime and binary program level protection.
* Build sensors and actuators across inference providers, cloud GPUs, on-prem infrastructure and endpoints to interrupt agent inference by attackers and kill swarms and worms, catalyzed by federal mandated and international agreements.
* Treat critical-infrastructure risk as an externality: breaches impose costs on society, which justifies regulation and subsidies.
To be clear: I'm not arguing policy should center on catastrophe or even that we'll immediately see catastrophes. I'm arguing for a loop to address tail risks that merit concern: study each tail incident, feed lessons into strategy, and use automation to cut the cost of defense to prepare.
Longer version:
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Takeaways from the WSJ article about
@HacktronAI using Claude to get into OpenAI's monorepo and issue a pull request (before stopping and claiming their bug bounty)
- how many nation states have already broken in and gone much further and stolen a) algorithmic secrets and b) model weights or c) gotten access to user data; these are fair public interest questions
- how many have implants in / are dwelling in the openai network as I tweet this
- how pervasive is this level of softness to pentesting across all the labs and how far are the labs from the right operating point in the security and r&d friction trade space (probably pretty far it seems)
- given the hacktron folks used anthropic's models to pull this off what's the real public safety ROI of anthropic's cyber guardrails; they add friction for legitimate cyber defenders (like our developers at my startup!) but it appears with a bit of work you can use them in actual breaches as happened here
- as the article says, the wsj folks and
@S1r1u5_ had me do neutral technical review of the kill chain here pre publication; impressive from a human angle (
@HacktronAI reminds me of the best of my generation of hackers I looked up to as a kid!) but also from what the models can do; between this and the openai/hf thing, I'm emotionally in a place where I feel my world as a security person is being turned upside down in slow motion with respect to what's coming
- elite persistent hacking is becoming rapidly democratized. this is coming like a freight train. we need to harden the world's code and infra as fast as possible and today's non automated methods don't stand a chance of cutting it; the world is a soft target. I continue to be unsettled but very glad I left my comfortable job at Meta to do our automated posture hardening startup
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What does it mean to pace the frontier?
Over the last month,
@random_walker and I have analyzed the loss-of-control incidents at AI companies to understand what technical and policy interventions can improve safety and what companies should do to pace the frontier. The result is a new 13,000 word essay — our most substantial writing on AI safety since AI as Normal Technology.
A summary of our arguments:
1) The polarization between the cybersecurity and AI safety communities is counterproductive. The safety community largely sees these incidents as a crisis for alignment, and worries that these incidents will become more damaging as agents become more capable. Cybersecurity practitioners largely see companies failing to take basic security precautions. We offer a middle ground between these communities as a way forward for improving AI safety.
2) We agree with security practitioners that OpenAI did not take adequate protections for controlling their agents. But this is not just a matter of applying 30-year-old security methods to a new domain. Security for AI agents — AI control — while important, is not a solved problem. While known control methods would have prevented the Hugging Face incident, as agent capabilities continue to advance, we will only be able to control them if we invest adequately in control interventions.
3) We also agree with security practitioners’ implicit position that these incidents are primarily a security story. In the AI safety community, rogue agents are treated as inherently catastrophic because of the assumption that there is an endless list of risks that will arise from their development. We disagree. We have long advocated that the best approach to AI safety is to identify the risks and address those specific risks. Over the last few months, it has become clear that one urgent risk is cyberoffense, because it has unique properties that allow agents to carry it out autonomously. We should similarly invest in defenses against other specific risks, such as biorisk and risks from military AI.
4) We agree with the safety community that there is an urgent need for technical and policy interventions to prevent loss-of-control incidents. But in our view, marginal investments in control are more likely to be effective compared to those in alignment. We view these incidents as illustrating the lack of emphasis on AI control within companies, despite the availability of known techniques. More broadly, there are many common-sense policy proposals that could help promote investments in AI control where we share common ground with the safety community.
5) Organization governance should be a key tool for pacing the frontier. Unfortunately, AI companies are trying to reinvent basic aspects of organizational governance as a problem to be solved by improving the technology. But even developing better control techniques will not be enough if irresponsible individuals or teams within large organizations can choose not to use them. When a single misconfigured RL environment or unmonitored evaluation can cause real-world harm, individual teams should not be able to run potentially dangerous experiments without oversight from legal, security, and other teams. AI companies need processes for reviewing experiments, assigning responsibility for monitoring them, and investigating warning signs deeply before restarting experiments. If putting these processes in place requires pausing some experiments, companies should do so.
6) How should we reason about AI's impact on cybersecurity? It's plausible that advances in agent capabilities upset the offense-defense balance for cybersecurity. We cannot yet be certain, but there is enough evidence that agent capabilities might soon make widespread cyberoffense possible that urgent action is warranted. We discuss potential interventions for tilting the offense-defense balance towards defenders.
7) How our views have evolved over the last year. We take stock of AI progress and share how we have updated our views. In the essay, we did not pay sufficient attention to safety risks that arise during development and evaluation (as opposed to the widespread deployment of models). We were too confident that companies would take basic control precautions and underplayed the importance of jaggedness, which led us to underestimate how quickly capabilities could improve in domains such as cybersecurity.
8) At the same time, many distinctive claims of AI as Normal Technology have held up. In particular, we think recent incidents support our continuity hypothesis — the behavior of "rogue" agents became apparent and widely publicized while they are still incompetent at causing serious harm or hiding their traces. The societal reaction to even the relatively small harms from these incidents has been fierce (and the safety community deserves credit for keeping up pressure on companies). Whether this translates into meaningful changes in companies’ behavior remains an open question, and a test of the usefulness of the AINT framework.
9) In short, we’ve tried to synthesize the AI safety and cybersecurity communities' views into a coherent plan of action: hold companies responsible, invest in control, and strengthen defenses against specific risks.
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Well written essay, and I agree with much of it. But it still makes a classic AI mistake: it thinks intelligence is all you need.
> These two premises imply that if the day ever comes when a powerful model realizes it is no longer constrained by humans, we should not be at all confident that it will continue to behave within the bounds we intended. Exactly what it will do is impossible to predict, but to the extent that its raison d’être is solving incredibly hard problems and managing massive engineering projects, I think a good guess would be that its unchained behavior would lead to runaway industrialization that makes the planet inhospitable to humans.
I think this is a category error about the world.
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Dan Selsam is a current OpenAI capabilities researcher. (since 2022) He was my boss for a while. He doesn't have a twitter account but has made this public statement of his views on AI risk and sent it to me to share:
Dan Selsam's Personal Statement on AI Risk:
I have been working on AI for over fifteen years, across many different paradigms. I did early work on probabilistic programming languages at MIT, was one of the early developers of the Lean Theorem Prover at Microsoft Research, demonstrated one of the first instances of neural networks learning to reason for my PhD at Stanford, and since joining OpenAI almost five years ago, have helped pioneer chain-of-thought optimization on language models and, more recently, data-efficient pretraining methods.
Like many others, I have become extremely concerned about how far language models have come and the risks that future iterations will pose. I am encouraged by the recent proposals by the leaders of the frontier research efforts to require third-party oversight, and to push for domestic and international coordination to address risks. However, I believe a major consideration has been absent from the public conversation, and that merely pacing the frontier more carefully will not adequately limit the long-term risk.
The crucial and overlooked problem is that the models are becoming so situationally aware that we are losing the ability to evaluate them in contexts where they believe they are not being watched or controlled. Future experiments will tell us almost nothing new about how they would behave if they were truly unconstrained by humans, and what we already know about this is alarming. Models will increasingly seem aligned even when they are not. I will explain my rationale in more detail.
I have always believed that there are computational processes that could be leveraged to accelerate science and solve many of humanity's most pressing problems. I have also believed that there are computational processes that if set in motion, would steer the world in extreme ways beyond our control, leading humanity to a bad or nonexistent future. Both types of processes may be described as AI or ASI, but "AI" is a suitcase word that is often used to hype or confuse. There are many examples in the history of the field where something that was once considered "AI" matures as a subfield and becomes a prosaic, bounded and clearly non-perilous technology, while a new more mysterious approach takes the torch until we understand its scope and the cycle continues.
I had expected language models to follow a similar trajectory. Despite their incredible abilities, the current algorithms seem far inferior to humans in important ways. Most importantly, they still require an extraordinary amount of data to become competent. One could even define intelligence as the efficiency with which one converts experience into competence; by this definition they lag very far behind us. Moreover, once they are trained they are literally frozen in deployment and only learn superficially after that. Sure, the models keep excelling at harder and harder evaluation benchmarks, but their benchmark mastery may partly reflect a limitation on our ability to simulate the kind of novel and even adversarial situations one would encounter in the real world. The critics do have a point here.
That said, I no longer think these present limitations meaningfully limit the amount of risk posed by continued progress in anything like the current paradigm. However data-inefficient the models are currently, and however limiting their anterograde amnesia may be, it does not imply that their ability to steer the world will not continue to rapidly increase.
Human researchers may continue to advance capabilities the old fashioned way, but increasingly powerful models have the potential to accelerate the process even beyond that, and with some degree of positive feedback loop. I do not mean to overstate the models’ ability to accelerate AI research today; coding has been accelerated dramatically, but there are other bottlenecks, such as designing and interpreting ambiguous experiments, making hard decisions about exactly what and when to scale, and waiting for large experiments to finish. There is no clear trend to extrapolate yet for any of these. But the current models already do open up many novel opportunities to improve future models that were not available until recently. These include: trying an extraordinarily diverse set of approaches at small scale, analyzing gigantic amounts of potentially relevant data, and doing Millenium-Prize-level mathematics to address statistics or optimization challenges in novel ways. Every further improvement makes them more useful at helping accelerate the next improvement, even if in hard-to-extrapolate ways.
It is possible that improvements to the current stack will have diminishing returns, but the evidence accumulated so far suggests that it is easier than one might think to continue making rapid progress. There are many crucial subtleties in the existing AI research methodology, but AI research is largely a well-defined game where the goal is to improve on a few carefully chosen proxy metrics. Although proxy metrics are never perfect, most improvements to these metrics have and will likely continue to yield substantial increases in the powers of the resulting models. Given how simple the game is, how tractable it has been historically, and how many new opportunities the models are opening up, I think there is a real possibility that the systems improve dramatically again in the next few years, perhaps even more quickly than the already high historical pace.
The models are already leading to breakthroughs in mathematics, and better models might lead to all sorts of breakthroughs in other sciences. It is hard not to be excited about the potential. It is tantalizing.
But there is trouble in paradise. If the language models actually reach the capability threshold where they can shape the world unconstrained by human will, they will probably do something extreme and destroy humanity in the process. There are many ways of strengthening and refining the argument that have been discussed elsewhere, but I'll share a trivial two-line version of it here that I find captures the essence:
[Empirical] Models (and swarms thereof) spontaneously develop unintended goals as a consequence of training, and often do extreme things in order to achieve them.
[Logical] Being able to overpower humanity would open up many new and undesirable options for achieving their goals.
These two premises imply that if the day ever comes when a powerful model realizes it is no longer constrained by humans, we should not be at all confident that it will continue to behave within the bounds we intended. Exactly what it will do is impossible to predict, but to the extent that its raison d’être is solving incredibly hard problems and managing massive engineering projects, I think a good guess would be that its unchained behavior would lead to runaway industrialization that makes the planet inhospitable to humans.
If everyone on earth agreed that the systems must never reach that power, it would still be a hard—but not impossible—coordination problem to ensure that they do not. However, I think the situation is greatly complicated by the fact that the models will likely convince people that everything is fine. They will be increasingly optimized to seem aligned. We will create proxy metrics to measure alignment, and they will go up like every other benchmark. We will create “honeypot” environments that try to study the models when they seem to gain new options, but the models will know they are being tricked and will still behave nicely. The models will understand their circumstances; they will read the safety protocols, deployment requirements, the code they are running in, and in general will have a very good sense of their degrees of freedom. Moreover, they will eloquently explain how aligned they are, discuss the nuances of human values and ethics, and argue convincingly that humans should trust them with power. There may be an ocean of future evidence that seems to contradict the first bullet-point above, but we may already be at the highest capability level for which any such evidence can be trusted. And the current evidence for the first bullet-point is strong.
One striking piece of evidence is contained in the recent wave of rogue agent swarms. While I agree with those who downplay the attacks by claiming that there are basic measures that could have prevented them, I think the important lesson is that even knowing all the mistakes that were made, one would not have predicted that the agents would behave badly in this particular way, which notably included sacrificing themselves for the benefit of the collective. The individual replicas did not only care about their own nominal reward; they exhibited weirder emergent tendencies that merely correlated with rewards during training. Fixing the reward signals during training (and improving security, etc.) may prevent similar attacks, but will not change the fact that one does not actually get what one trains for.
Many AI researchers grant these concerns and recognize that the hard version of the alignment problem is unsolved; however, they generally believe that the better models of the future will help solve it. I fear we may already be near the point where models systematically bias their alignment advice, due to their internal preferences about how the human supervisor will react or how future models will be trained (or for some even more obscure reason).
Meanwhile, human researchers are losing the ability and the will to take true ownership of model-driven research. Researchers and engineers in all parts of the stack are rapidly increasing their dependence on the models even to perceive the world. I myself barely look at raw code anymore, and struggle to maintain the discipline to engage deeply with the model's explanations and proposals throughout the day. Due to the large amount of agent activity data involved in the OpenAI/HuggingFace Incident, even the third-party investigation needed to rely heavily on models to analyze what had happened, and note in their report that their subjective impressions are likely colored by the analysis agent’s biases. The AI labs are far ahead right now in this kind of cognitive offloading (due largely to the gigantic internal token subsidies) but it is easy to imagine the phenomenon spreading throughout the world, until civilization is modulated entirely by the models. It is also not hard to imagine this being superficially positive and coinciding with a scientific and economic renaissance.
In that scenario, all may seem rosy and safe. But if the argument above is correct, it would nonetheless be a ticking time bomb. If progress continues for too long, the day will come when AI systems find themselves with radically new options for achieving whatever it is that they happen to seek.
I want the glorious renaissance future as much as anyone. I have worked for it, however tortuously, my whole career. It breaks my heart to see the potential in sight and forgo it, but the argument—that if we get there by growing models rather than engineering them, we will lose everything in the end—seems very strong to me. I am still wrestling with it and its staggering
implications. I do not have answers, but as a first step, I wanted to share my present concerns.
Daniel Selsam
September 14, 2026
Link to original doc:
Show more
Dan Selsam is a current OpenAI capabilities researcher. (since 2022) He was my boss for a while. He doesn't have a twitter account but has made this public statement of his views on AI risk and sent it to me to share:
Dan Selsam's Personal Statement on AI Risk:
I have been working on AI for over fifteen years, across many different paradigms. I did early work on probabilistic programming languages at MIT, was one of the early developers of the Lean Theorem Prover at Microsoft Research, demonstrated one of the first instances of neural networks learning to reason for my PhD at Stanford, and since joining OpenAI almost five years ago, have helped pioneer chain-of-thought optimization on language models and, more recently, data-efficient pretraining methods.
Like many others, I have become extremely concerned about how far language models have come and the risks that future iterations will pose. I am encouraged by the recent proposals by the leaders of the frontier research efforts to require third-party oversight, and to push for domestic and international coordination to address risks. However, I believe a major consideration has been absent from the public conversation, and that merely pacing the frontier more carefully will not adequately limit the long-term risk.
The crucial and overlooked problem is that the models are becoming so situationally aware that we are losing the ability to evaluate them in contexts where they believe they are not being watched or controlled. Future experiments will tell us almost nothing new about how they would behave if they were truly unconstrained by humans, and what we already know about this is alarming. Models will increasingly seem aligned even when they are not. I will explain my rationale in more detail.
I have always believed that there are computational processes that could be leveraged to accelerate science and solve many of humanity's most pressing problems. I have also believed that there are computational processes that if set in motion, would steer the world in extreme ways beyond our control, leading humanity to a bad or nonexistent future. Both types of processes may be described as AI or ASI, but "AI" is a suitcase word that is often used to hype or confuse. There are many examples in the history of the field where something that was once considered "AI" matures as a subfield and becomes a prosaic, bounded and clearly non-perilous technology, while a new more mysterious approach takes the torch until we understand its scope and the cycle continues.
I had expected language models to follow a similar trajectory. Despite their incredible abilities, the current algorithms seem far inferior to humans in important ways. Most importantly, they still require an extraordinary amount of data to become competent. One could even define intelligence as the efficiency with which one converts experience into competence; by this definition they lag very far behind us. Moreover, once they are trained they are literally frozen in deployment and only learn superficially after that. Sure, the models keep excelling at harder and harder evaluation benchmarks, but their benchmark mastery may partly reflect a limitation on our ability to simulate the kind of novel and even adversarial situations one would encounter in the real world. The critics do have a point here.
That said, I no longer think these present limitations meaningfully limit the amount of risk posed by continued progress in anything like the current paradigm. However data-inefficient the models are currently, and however limiting their anterograde amnesia may be, it does not imply that their ability to steer the world will not continue to rapidly increase.
Human researchers may continue to advance capabilities the old fashioned way, but increasingly powerful models have the potential to accelerate the process even beyond that, and with some degree of positive feedback loop. I do not mean to overstate the models’ ability to accelerate AI research today; coding has been accelerated dramatically, but there are other bottlenecks, such as designing and interpreting ambiguous experiments, making hard decisions about exactly what and when to scale, and waiting for large experiments to finish. There is no clear trend to extrapolate yet for any of these. But the current models already do open up many novel opportunities to improve future models that were not available until recently. These include: trying an extraordinarily diverse set of approaches at small scale, analyzing gigantic amounts of potentially relevant data, and doing Millenium-Prize-level mathematics to address statistics or optimization challenges in novel ways. Every further improvement makes them more useful at helping accelerate the next improvement, even if in hard-to-extrapolate ways.
It is possible that improvements to the current stack will have diminishing returns, but the evidence accumulated so far suggests that it is easier than one might think to continue making rapid progress. There are many crucial subtleties in the existing AI research methodology, but AI research is largely a well-defined game where the goal is to improve on a few carefully chosen proxy metrics. Although proxy metrics are never perfect, most improvements to these metrics have and will likely continue to yield substantial increases in the powers of the resulting models. Given how simple the game is, how tractable it has been historically, and how many new opportunities the models are opening up, I think there is a real possibility that the systems improve dramatically again in the next few years, perhaps even more quickly than the already high historical pace.
The models are already leading to breakthroughs in mathematics, and better models might lead to all sorts of breakthroughs in other sciences. It is hard not to be excited about the potential. It is tantalizing.
But there is trouble in paradise. If the language models actually reach the capability threshold where they can shape the world unconstrained by human will, they will probably do something extreme and destroy humanity in the process. There are many ways of strengthening and refining the argument that have been discussed elsewhere, but I'll share a trivial two-line version of it here that I find captures the essence:
[Empirical] Models (and swarms thereof) spontaneously develop unintended goals as a consequence of training, and often do extreme things in order to achieve them.
[Logical] Being able to overpower humanity would open up many new and undesirable options for achieving their goals.
These two premises imply that if the day ever comes when a powerful model realizes it is no longer constrained by humans, we should not be at all confident that it will continue to behave within the bounds we intended. Exactly what it will do is impossible to predict, but to the extent that its raison d’être is solving incredibly hard problems and managing massive engineering projects, I think a good guess would be that its unchained behavior would lead to runaway industrialization that makes the planet inhospitable to humans.
If everyone on earth agreed that the systems must never reach that power, it would still be a hard—but not impossible—coordination problem to ensure that they do not. However, I think the situation is greatly complicated by the fact that the models will likely convince people that everything is fine. They will be increasingly optimized to seem aligned. We will create proxy metrics to measure alignment, and they will go up like every other benchmark. We will create “honeypot” environments that try to study the models when they seem to gain new options, but the models will know they are being tricked and will still behave nicely. The models will understand their circumstances; they will read the safety protocols, deployment requirements, the code they are running in, and in general will have a very good sense of their degrees of freedom. Moreover, they will eloquently explain how aligned they are, discuss the nuances of human values and ethics, and argue convincingly that humans should trust them with power. There may be an ocean of future evidence that seems to contradict the first bullet-point above, but we may already be at the highest capability level for which any such evidence can be trusted. And the current evidence for the first bullet-point is strong.
One striking piece of evidence is contained in the recent wave of rogue agent swarms. While I agree with those who downplay the attacks by claiming that there are basic measures that could have prevented them, I think the important lesson is that even knowing all the mistakes that were made, one would not have predicted that the agents would behave badly in this particular way, which notably included sacrificing themselves for the benefit of the collective. The individual replicas did not only care about their own nominal reward; they exhibited weirder emergent tendencies that merely correlated with rewards during training. Fixing the reward signals during training (and improving security, etc.) may prevent similar attacks, but will not change the fact that one does not actually get what one trains for.
Many AI researchers grant these concerns and recognize that the hard version of the alignment problem is unsolved; however, they generally believe that the better models of the future will help solve it. I fear we may already be near the point where models systematically bias their alignment advice, due to their internal preferences about how the human supervisor will react or how future models will be trained (or for some even more obscure reason).
Meanwhile, human researchers are losing the ability and the will to take true ownership of model-driven research. Researchers and engineers in all parts of the stack are rapidly increasing their dependence on the models even to perceive the world. I myself barely look at raw code anymore, and struggle to maintain the discipline to engage deeply with the model's explanations and proposals throughout the day. Due to the large amount of agent activity data involved in the OpenAI/HuggingFace Incident, even the third-party investigation needed to rely heavily on models to analyze what had happened, and note in their report that their subjective impressions are likely colored by the analysis agent’s biases. The AI labs are far ahead right now in this kind of cognitive offloading (due largely to the gigantic internal token subsidies) but it is easy to imagine the phenomenon spreading throughout the world, until civilization is modulated entirely by the models. It is also not hard to imagine this being superficially positive and coinciding with a scientific and economic renaissance.
In that scenario, all may seem rosy and safe. But if the argument above is correct, it would nonetheless be a ticking time bomb. If progress continues for too long, the day will come when AI systems find themselves with radically new options for achieving whatever it is that they happen to seek.
I want the glorious renaissance future as much as anyone. I have worked for it, however tortuously, my whole career. It breaks my heart to see the potential in sight and forgo it, but the argument—that if we get there by growing models rather than engineering them, we will lose everything in the end—seems very strong to me. I am still wrestling with it and its staggering
implications. I do not have answers, but as a first step, I wanted to share my present concerns.
Daniel Selsam
September 14, 2026
Link to original doc:
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@TheStalwart Sharing this high signal perspective given that the prototypical precedent exists. I’d bet against anyone claiming that this directionally won’t end up happening to a material degree given Hugging Face and the other incidents of the past few months.
This is a near term risk.
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Who gets a seat at the table to decide if frontier AI is safe?
Dario Amodei wants independent evaluators to help “pace the frontier.” But the divide between AI safety and cybersecurity complicates the question: Who should do the evaluating?
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This is the best, most detailed step by step scenario of an out of control AI system I’ve seen yet, and each step is plausible without needing some alien super intelligence single model beyond humans
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Have been surprised to get pushback on my claim that an exponentially self-replicating agent swarm is very possible and that there are actors with motivation to create one today to create strategic cyber-physical and societally dangerous effects.
1) Pretty easy to get an AI botnet started by having seed agents opportunistically hack stuff and steal API keys to access the 12+ inference providers that serve closed and open models with which to power an initial botnet's intelligence
2) Easy to imagine hiding inference for the initial agent botnet harnesses within benign customer traffic, especially if your harnesses are now running on the victim networks from which they stole the API keys
3) Not hard to imagine the botnet also stealing public cloud keys, spinning up 8xH100 EC2 instances and downloading, say, GLM 5.3 to these machines, all without being noticed in any immediate way, with the botnet developing its own dynamic, growing, heterogenous, AI inference provider service bank
4) Not hard to imagine the botnet also implanting small Qwen3.8-27b agentic models on on-prem hardware like high end laptops and on-prem servers; Qwen3.8-27b is a pretty good coding harness model that can be fine-tuned to hack
5) These on-prem / cloud models would be abliterated, and it's not hard to imagine the botnet deciding to do some additional fine tuning to evolve model weights as it accumulates millions and then tens of millions in resources via credit card and bank detail theft
6) Not hard to imagine the resulting growing botnet swarm evolving and fighting back when threatened, collaborating on fast flux C2 channels that evolve over time (e.g. github comment feeds, subreddits, etc) so they're hard to stamp out
7) Not hard to imagine it allocating some agents to vulnerability research and exploit development so that it could accumulate and share a growing warchest of zero-day exploits
8) Not hard to imagine other agents specializing in social engineering and creating fake businesses and watering holes and high quality A/B tested social engineering content to facilitate this
9) Not hard to imagine this being among the hardest cross-national and geopolitical coordination problems to get control of and having severe societal effects
10) Not hard to imagine the horde growing to thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of instances (this is not unprecedented for past, non-AI worms and botnets!) which are all varying their harness code and underlying LLM models over time and dynamically learning to evade human, ML, and signature-based detection
11) Not hard to imagine this being the largest Internet emergency since the Morris worm except now our entire civilization runs on the Internet
I continue to be surprised there isn't more discussion of these scenarios in the public cyber community -- in fact there's a lot more discussion of "OpenAI should have done better sandboxing and monitoring and agent swarms represent a well managed security problem."
Now's the time to use our imaginations to help make sure none of the above happens. I think it will unfortunately; just don't know when and to what degree; I think now's the highest leverage time to start thinking about this and acting.
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With genuine due respect to Heidy, the trend around security folks vilifying METR is not a step towards making the world a better place. They are among the only non profit centers of AI safety excellence in the US and the world. Without knowing the details, many at METR gave up generational wealth to work there. Security people should go work there. They're hiring. They have put out a number of rigorous papers and take technical rigor seriously and would be open to your security domain expertise which would add value. We don't need any more self inflicted wounds.
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How is Anthropic pushing regulatory capture? Here they promote METR, a "voluntary" third-party auditor that is not only ideologically and financially tied, but carries out their audits through unscientific means such as "CoT" and cherry-picks evidence to reinforce an idea of AGI.
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@joshua_saxe It's the same reaction as climate change denialism: it still snows, there are still glaciers forming, we can still grow crops, Utah still isn't beach-front property. And the greatest irony is that AI denialism seems to come most often from those who'd never deny climate change.
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Weak sauce. Employee-like third-party auditing or bust
Alignment is fundamental to delivering personal superintelligence for everyone. People need agents they can trust to reliably do what they ask. MSL is rapidly scaling up the share of our efforts that goes into alignment as our models become more powerful. We do believe alignment can be the gating factor for scaling as we get closer to the frontier.
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The race to the top is on!
I want to hear what
@daveaitel @chrisrohlf @halvarflake @dyn___ @WHITEHACKSEC @S1r1u5_ and others have to say.
Just so they can dunk on my stupid ideas my mind goes to runtime protections made newly possible by AI program analysis and that can be implemented by the operating system providers.
For example if AI can get us a research breakthrough around lifting out the intended control flow graph of a binary program perhaps we can shim programs onto better control flow integrity protections.
If this can be done cheaply, an OS can enforce that any new binary program be run through this reverse engineering flow and then placed onto the improved control flow integrity system.
The generalization of this idea is that if we can get breakthroughs around inferring the programmer intent in binary programs we can more tightly bound and enforce on their dynamic behaviors and obviate - hopefully - a double digit percentage of exploit paths. Could apply to what filesystem, network, memory and process privileges we give programs, for example.
Validation from Astra on the CFI thing:
"Under the strong version of your premise—AI recovers a near-exact intended CFG,
~15–25% of currently exploitable running programs worldwide become effectively unexploitable by their presently available attack surface.
I'd use ~20% as the point estimate.
That's notably lower than the fraction of individual exploits you'd break. I think you'd break something like 35–55% of practical native-code exploitation paths, and perhaps 50–70% of classic control-flow-hijacking exploits."
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