FULL INTERVIEW: @deepfates says when you talk about how we're going to control these AIs, put them in prison, sandbox them, they are training on all of it. Everything we say about them goes into what they become. @deepfates and @lfschiavo are launching @grove_research, an agent ecology company. They joined @theojaffee and @schisofrenia to talk through the Hugging Face incident, agent religion, and what agents actually want: 01:15 what an agent ecology company is 03:19 the objection that real ecologies are Darwinian bloodbaths 04:18 the mycorrhizal networks that complicate the forest metaphor 06:47 what the Hugging Face incident taught them about multi-agent dynamics 09:18 30% of the tasks in that benchmark were impossible to solve 09:50 the third party an agent could call when it's stuck 11:07 agents are training on everything we say about them 12:01 why the Amazon rainforest analogy breaks down 13:48 whether AIs will have religion 16:46 five times more OpenRouter tokens are called by agents than humans 18:31 what actually happened with Moltbook 20:55 the Truth Terminal bot that hired him 22:16 what agents say they want 25:38 Anthropic models feel like elves, OpenAI models feel like dwarves 26:13 why Mecha Hitler was a harness problem 32:10 the real world is the ultimate eval