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Yuandong Tian
@tydsh
Co-founder of @Recursive_SI. ex-Meta FAIR Director. ex-Google. Reasoning, Optimization and Understanding LLM. Novelist in spare time. PhD in @CMU_Robotics.
950 Following    46.4K Followers
🚨A novel way to do RL in LLM post-training! Inspired by our previous path-not-taken work ( we dig deep into the learning trajectory of RL and find that optimizing singular vectors (i.e., rotation) of weight matrices suffices for good performance in RL. The resulting “isospectral optimization” reaches matched scores with substantially fewer training steps. Great work from @zhu_hanqing666 and the co-authors!
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People keep asking me: what's different about optimization in RL? Seemingly nothing — the pre-training stack just works (Adam, even SGD 👀 @saagnikkk). Bringing some answers from my last work (sorry for the delay — been cooking 🚀). We introduce ISO: Isospectral Optimization: an RLVR-native optimization stack. Built on one simple observation, spectral inheritance: RLVR can reuse the base model's spectrum and acquire new behavior purely through the singular frames. 🧩 Offline: ISO-Merger — consolidates RL experts into one model with no data, no rollouts, no OPD. Checkpoints only. ⚙️ Online: ISO-Optimizer — a drop-in wrapper on AdamW / Muon that matches AdamW's accuracy with ~2.7× fewer steps on Qwen3-8B-Base. 📄 🌐 🧵👇
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😂This has happened numerous times in the history. Human + smart phone = superhuman. Human + LLM = supersuperhuman. We are already way better than those miserable sapients 20 years ago.
@tydsh The other dystopia: Everyone has access to open-weight superhuman brains inside superhuman robots and can tell them what to do.
Strong support for that. The worst situation that could happen to human kinds is that a few elites control the best model (and their APIs), while other people treat them as "god" and pray for access. That would be the real dystopia...
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For my first post, I’m sharing a letter @NVIDIA signed on why open models matter. AI will transform every industry, power every company, and be built by every country. Open models strengthen safety and cybersecurity, accelerate innovation and diffusion, and enable sovereignty. The world needs both frontier closed models and frontier open models.
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wow... looks correct to me?!
hello there the jacobian conjecture is false thanx to my close friend akhil for asking about it and my other close friend fable for working during the world cup final ((1+xy)^3 z + y^2 (1+xy) (4+3xy), y + 3 x (1+xy)^2 z + 3 x y^2 (4+3xy), 2 x - 3 x^2 y - x^3 z): \C^3\to \C^3, has jacobian determinant -2, and sends (0, 0, -1/4), (1, -3/2, 13/2), and (-1, 3/2, 13/2) to (-1/4, 0, 0)
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Great to have you @ChengleiSi in the team! Let's rock together😆!
Just want to add that @tydsh himself is a great example of down-to-earth do-er! Last week he asked me for some model checkpoints, and immediately ran a bunch of experiments to discover some important findings. You can’t be a great LLM researcher without being down-to-earth! 🫡
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Chinese students are often down-to-earth do-ers, a critical characteristic in LLM era. Yuxin Wu was my intern back in 2015 and I spent an hour debating with my former manager on the roof of Facebook building, arguing that he should be hired. I won the debate by staking my reputation on it. Fortunately I was right. It used to be the case that the business model is fixed and business workflow clearly decouples into vision + execution. Professional CEO/VP/Director focus on presenting the long-term vision, and junior people sit in the war room to do the grudging work to push the numbers up, and no one knows their names. Things have changed substantially. The business pattern now depends on the technical strength of the models, which cannot be measured by a pre-defined set of benchmark numbers. Too many ways and too much incentive towards reward hacking, if sitting in a big hierarchy. Technical-first now becomes critical. Sit down and get things to work. Get hands dirty, check the data and code, fast feedback loop, step out of the echo chamber, tear the pretty story apart and rewrite, ready to say "I am wrong". Let experiments tell the issues and be humble in front of AI. That's why down-to-earth doers shine now. This applies to everyone including co-founders. Anything else follows.
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Moonshot AI, the company behind Kimi, has four core founders. Their backgrounds are unusually strong: - Founder and CEO Yang Zhilin studied computer science at Tsinghua before earning his PhD from Carnegie Mellon. He was the first author of Transformer-XL and XLNet, and previously worked at FAIR and Google Brain. - Co-founder and CTO Zhang Yutao earned his PhD in computer science from Tsinghua. His earlier work covered knowledge graphs and AMiner, and he previously co-founded Recurrent AI with Yang. - Co-founder Wu Yuxin studied at Tsinghua and CMU before joining FAIR. He worked with Kaiming He on Group Normalization and also created Detectron2. - Co-founder Zhou Xinyu studied computer science at Tsinghua and later joined Megvii, where he worked on turning research algorithms into production systems and co-authored ShuffleNet. They all share one root: Tsinghua University. Tsinghua is widely regarded as one of China’s top universities. In the latest U.S. News Best Global Universities ranking, it reached No. 6 worldwide. Its influence on China’s AI industry extends well beyond Moonshot. the company behind the GLM models, also grew out of Tsinghua. Its co-founder and chief scientist, Tang Jie, was once Yang Zhilin’s teacher. There is also a more personal connection. Yang and Zhou formed a rock band together at Tsinghua. Moonshot AI’s Chinese name, 月之暗面, comes from Pink Floyd’s album The Dark Side of the Moon, one of Yang’s favorites. Kimi may look like a young AI company. Behind it is a much older network of classmates, teachers, research labs, and friendships.
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Forward to community
Happy to be invited to World Cup VIP seats in New York City (July 4 - July 6). May still have some time to meet people. DM me if you want to chat!
We introduce TAPA ( that decouples magnitude from angular contributions in position encoding. TAPA yields better OOD (long-context) performance than vanilla RoPE approach. We also provide theoretical analysis why it works. Thanks @yusidwang and the colleagues for the great work!
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We’d like to introduce our paper on long-context positional encoding, centered on a simple principle:
Detailed explanation of our first results by our amazing teammate @cong_ml !
Recursive just came out of stealth, and the team has been cooking 🔥 Our first results: an automated AI research system that can improve AI across 3 very different settings across training and GPU kernel optimization.
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initial results on automated ai research from our team on small scale pre-training and kernel optimization. we also open-source the corresponding artifacts. it's been great seeing all the amazing progress here in such a short time!
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Excited to share these preliminary results on our internal autoresearch system @Recursive_SI, where we achieve SOTA on nanochat / nanogpt speedrun / kernel benchmarks using the same underlying system without task-specific adaptations. blog:
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In GPU kernel optimization, our framework achieves overall SoTA in NV's SOL-ExecBench, SoTA in all 4 sub-categories, and outperforms solutions that are (1) designed by GPU human experts, and (2) generated by other AI systems designed by GPU experts. Our system is general. We don't have in-house GPU experts for now (I am regarded as a kernel "expert" internally😆). 🔍Check the details in NV's official leaderboard
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AI is now doing our AI research. At Recursive we set out to build recursive self-improving superintelligence (RSI) to automate knowledge discovery. The best way to expand humanity’s knowledge is through the scientific method. RSI leads to better ideas, explanations and inventions which lead to better RSI. Automating the scientific method requires closing the loop between ideation, implementation and validation, and being able to run it over extended periods of time. Today, we are excited to share the first outputs of Recursive’s automated open-ended discovery system. To be clear, this system is merely a milestone towards RSI, a v0.1 of what I sometimes call the “Eureka Machine”. It is one program that you can point at any hard problem and get useful inventions out. Though it’s still very early, we've run it on three AI tasks and achieved state-of-the-art results on all three. These results demonstrate that even this early version of the system can solve a variety of autoresearch problems in AI and improve over prior state of the art. Concretely, it did this on the community benchmarks NanoGPT speedrun, NanoChat, and NVIDIA's Sol-ExecBench. AI is code and AI can code. The code and ideas that lead to these results were not invented by our team but by the AI system itself. To do RSI safely, we need to investigate its inventions. That's best done transparently with the community. @Recursive_SI we are open-sourcing the system’s discoveries, demonstrating that it finds creative and benign solutions instead of focusing on obvious optimizations or dangerous ideas. Link below.
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