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Andrej
@0xdrej
Making data accessible @grass || Co-founder @wyndLabs_ai
304 Following    17.7K Followers
had someone in an interview just tell me they’re interested in working for us because our “petabytes per employee” is probably the highest in the world. never thought of it that way - super cool
@theo2pi 75% of the top AI labs and multiple F100/mag7 companies, actually
yes actually, and more on this soon
@0xdrej appreciate the transparency here! if i was listening to this interview correctly - kinda sounds like you guys are starting to gather data for robotics?
Grass has been criticized in the past for its comms. TLDR here - all revenue flows to foundation (no equity), all reported revenue checked by a 3rd party (report attached)
Grass DataCo Ltd., a wholly owned subsidiary of Grass Foundation, provides data infrastructure to leading AI labs training frontier models. We're publishing an independent attestation of its revenue through Q2 2026, conducted by Regen Financial. Full report:
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AI voices can speak. Can they act? With TTSArena we built a Voice Acting Arena: two models, same scene, you pick the more believable performance. 🎭 We would love to hear what you think! 🙂🦁
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age of research for post-training ended a few months ago: "the marginal return of engineering the data and environment pipeline substantially exceeds that of algorithmic novelty in post-training"
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I now believe that long‑context capabilities stem more from pre-training corpora rather than architecture.
Andrej explains why Grass needs your internet connection, not your personal data "Anyone joining the Grass network isn't actually sharing personal information or anything like that. I do feel like that ends up being this wide misconception" "Ultimately, what they're contributing is just internet bandwidth" "When AI labs need to build huge training datasets to train their AI models, the most important source for them is actually the internet. They need to go and read as much of the internet as possible" "We're living in a world right now where even though the internet's growing at an exponential pace, the rate at which it's shutting off to the public web is also growing at an exponential pace" "Basically a third of the internet right now is getting protected by Cloudflare. If any AI lab wants to scrape websites that have these types of anti-bot turned on, that is completely inaccessible to them" "Any website that sees an IP address belonging to any of the top frontier labs or any of the cloud providers nowadays is just blocking those" "Grass is a network of millions of residential internet connections" "What we've built is the ability for any AI lab to tap into millions of IP addresses so that all their crawling activity looks like real user activity, and websites display data that they would otherwise display to residential users" "This is all public data, by the way. Nothing behind login walls, nothing behind paywalls. This is all public data that should remain public"
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A little note from my agent on Zuck's take - GRASS — clearest beneficiary, and the least contested. The section on open-source competitiveness argues US labs are handicapped by training-data restrictions and that policy should reduce that friction, plus an explicit defense of distillation — that you can "learn from anything you can observe." A Mag7 CEO publicly lobbying to de-risk the legal status of web-scale training data expands the addressable market for every ethically-sourced data supplier and compresses the tail risk that has kept large enterprises from signing with a residential-proxy network. The bear rebuttal — that legitimizing data use kills Grass's regulatory-arbitrage moat — doesn't hold. Grass's moat is access, not legality: centralized scrapers in a single cloud region get rate-limited, geoblocked, or served poisoned caches. Cloudflare doesn't care what the FTC says. What policy loosening does is enlarge the buyer set. The sharper risk is second-order: if distillation and synthetic data are normalized, some marginal demand for fresh scraped corpora substitutes away. Grass's answer is already in motion — the pivot into inference data via Live Context Retrieval, launching this summer, on top of ~7x H1-2026 revenue growth versus H1 2025. Zuckerberg's agent picture — 24/7 personal agents ordering ingredients, monitoring training, prototyping — is per-query live retrieval, not a one-time corpus. That's the recurring-revenue side of the business, and it's the side the essay endorses.
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if you’re building in the people search category (recruiting, GTM, etc) and want access to the largest & cheapest database (over 500m records) for raw data that updates quarterly, DM me
the extent to which AI progress is data bound is under appreciated by most
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Automating AI research is going to look a lot more like data cleaning than it is going to look like inventing the transformer
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this is true in all domains. the coolest property of transformational technology is that it turns the prior generation’s average output into a baseline.
as the internet mean converges towards claude design, talented designers reign supreme
I thought data companies are going to die, I was wrong. Instead, they might end up being the kingmaker. They’re selling shovels. They are going to continue growing a lot more. Surge will probably have the reputation of Anthropic in less than 18 months. Compute is no longer a sustainable edge, researchers change labs & carry their experience with them - data is THE differentiator. Labs will be forced to buy a lot more data & vertically try to penetrate different industries. This has already been proven with Anthropic’s focus on coding. But GitHub for other industries don’t exist. Data companies with strong research muscle & domain expertise will dominate. As intelligence penetrates enterprises a lot more, their dependence on a few labs will reduce as well. It’ll be extremely difficult for other companies to pivot into this business because the combination of operational muscle + research you need can’t be built overnight. That DNA is critical to do this work. We of course have a million companies doing this business but extremely few that genuinely push the frontier forward. We “need” a lot more of those who can partner closely with labs to help build the most critical technology of our lives.
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One key point from the Stage 2 Reward explainer: 150k users captured about 90% of network traffic. This reflects how the network prioritizes bandwidth to nodes with the highest stability, updated software, and high-demand coverage. Keeping your app up to date should be the #1# priority for app users who want to maximize their network points.
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@CryptoSparky Or building valuable things so more liquidity joins the space
Calling what we're building the "Stargate for Data" might sound hyperbolic, but it's probably the most accurate description of both our ambition and the direction we're moving towards.
A Stargate for Data Labs are on a trajectory towards >$100B/year of data spend by 2030. As we begin the trillion-dollar compute project, we need to think about the equivalent civilizational-scale effort for the other core ingredient: data. At the foundation of the scaling revolution is a simple empirical law: deep neural networks improve smoothly, near magically, as you scale two things in proportion — (1) the size of the model and (2) the amount of data you train on. And despite the scaling laws being brutally diminishing, we’ve successfully bitten the bullet of logarithmic scaling with exponentially larger clusters and datasets, and received incredible new capabilities in return. But this exponential scaling is bound to hit some limits. Oddly enough, compute has compounded fairly smoothly without limit, with trillions flowing into hypercluster buildout. Instead, we’re starting to hit the limits of an exponential demand for data. Gone are the days of being purely in the compute-limited regime, where we had effectively infinite internet data but never enough GPUs, we’re now entering a data-limited regime. Luckily, this limitation is coinciding with staggering improvements in AI capabilities. Incredibly, we seem to have a real line of sight towards automating a majority of knowledge work with the methods we have today. RL + pretraining, and the data for each, will be generally sufficient to achieve most economically valuable tasks, given some minimal algorithmic progress and continued compute scaling. In a data-limited world, economic progress & scientific acceleration will be directly bottlenecked by our coverage in each domain. We need to see data collection as imperative, deserving the same civilizational ambition we’ve given compute. The internet as a one-time subsidy It’s underrated how much all progress in AI owes everything to the blessing of the internet, this one-time civilizational subsidy to deep learning, decades of unintentional accumulation of a perfect dataset: every book, blog post, image, video, paper, discussion, etc. all digitized and freely available. Without the internet, we’d likely see comparably minimal progress in AI today, and in fact, if you notice where systems currently underperform, it’s almost always a domain where web coverage is limited and data is private, expensive, non-digitized, or non-existent. But we’re running out of it. There are only about 300 trillion tokens of useful public human text, and the internet doesn’t produce nearly enough new high-quality data to match what scaling demands — we’re soon to hit the limits of public data for pretraining. And though the advent of RL bought us reprieve — chain-of-thought RL needed a new form of untapped data, gradable math & coding tasks, also available online — we’re quickly running dry of hard tasks for RL as well. Why do we need so much data anyways? Humans learn comparably in far less time, needing just one textbook where language models might need the equivalent of hundreds to learn a new topic. It’s possible we discover methods that are massively more data efficient — synthetic data, data efficient architectures, other exotic algorithms — but fundamental progress is slow and highly unpredictable, and the recipe we have just works today. And, while I’m wary of getting too deep here, even arbitrary data efficiency can’t replace data that just doesn’t exist in the first place. There’s a massive amount of missing information on the web: the dark matter of the internet — tacit knowledge, undocumented processes, etc. — most of which was never published and lives only inside organizations, the physical world, or just in people’s heads. I’ll leave it here and say, for reasons far longer than I can fit in this post [1], it’s best to operate on the assumption that our insatiable desire for data will continue as it has for the last decade. There will be >$100B/year in data spend by 2030 We’re not screwed yet, of course. Only a fraction of useful data in the world is on the public internet, the rest is stored inside private datasets, corporations, personal archives, universities, governments, and otherwise. Labs can and will continue to license these private datasets, or create them from scratch, like Anthropic’s book scanning project. And we’ll increasingly task human experts to manufacture new high-quality data, with a large fraction of hard RL training tasks already being sourced this way. But collecting this data, unlike before, will be expensive. As the free internet dries up and demand for data rises, we should see labs investing equally in data as compute, likely spending a significant fraction of their compute budgets on data. As we see trillions spent on compute, we should also expect hundreds of billions spent on data (human data & collection budgets), given their equivalent importance. And, notably, data spend is already tracking this way: total data spend across vendors, not counting internal lab efforts, is already roughly $7 billion per year. It’s quite reasonable we’ll see >10x by 2030. Data is the moat Data becoming increasingly private will also majorly shift the competitive landscape. While compute is a commodity — everyone buys the same chips and builds the same clusters — data really isn’t. The big reason why frontier models have felt eerily similar to one another, until now, is they were trained on substantially the same internet (pretraining data variability across labs seems pretty low). As labs diverge onto more exclusive, manually collected corpora, I think models will begin to increasingly diverge. OpenAI pulling ahead in mathematics and Anthropic in cybersecurity isn’t an accident. I really think laser-focused collection of high-quality midtraining tokens, custom RL tasks, environments, with dedicated research effort, has driven much of the visible progress in the last year. James Betker has an excellent blog about “the ‘it’ in a model is the dataset”: model architecture and compute buy you efficiency and order-of-magnitude performance, but ultimately, models, of any architecture, are such incredible approximators of their dataset that the core meat of a model boils down to just that, nothing else. Data is a major moat. AGI long, ASI short As I’ve tweeted before, I’m confident that, despite the narrative, the data labeling industry will continue to fuel great businesses and be an excellent AGI long, ASI short. The argument is just: By the time the AGI labs no longer need data, it’s probably over for everything else too [2]. In this frame, the last companies left should be the data companies, as the last speck of economically relevant data is sucked in. And these companies are already among some of the fastest-growing companies in history: Mercor, founded three years ago, is rumored to be doing $2 billion in revenue with something like a few million expert labelers under contract. While these businesses are very non-stationary, what type of data is needed shifts constantly, I don’t think that diminishes their value. The long-tail of the economy is long, and the value isn’t diminishing as you extend farther into more obscure information: as models get more capable, the value of the marginal dataset goes up, not down. Automating a full job means covering its full distribution of tasks, tools, edge-cases, and long-horizon loops. There’s some O-ring logic to it: a dataset that buys a 1% bump can justify a previously unjustifiable collection cost when it’s the difference between a system that does 99% of a job and one that does all of it [3]. The competitive dynamics of the data industry are still evolving but as demand for data is increasingly niche, ultra high-quality, expert-generated, I think we’ll see real consolidation. Again, contra-narrative, we’ll probably see true competitive differentiation built on brand, quality control of data (which, from personal experience, can vary massively), as well as in network effects from the talent networks themselves over time. We’ve already seen rapidly shifting data type demand work in favor of incumbents, benefiting those with early knowledge of where the market is headed. The binding constraint It’s truly remarkable that we seem to have the recipe — pretraining + RL — to absorb most economically valuable work, despite being far from a lot of what we expected from “AGI”. The same way chess engines revealed we never needed general intelligence to solve chess, as we originally thought, we’ll soon realize that software, mathematics, and the vast majority of the economy (including physical, just running ~3 years behind!) are the same. If recursive self-improvement or some other algorithmic breakthrough arrives, that’s wonderful, but we really don’t have to wait for it. The binding constraint between here and an automated economy isn’t that, it’s data coverage: every app, workflow, edge case, process, etc. sitting in private stores or someone’s head. Ultimately, while we make tremendous strides in more efficient model architectures, and clusters like Stargate equip us with zettaflop-scale compute, we really aren’t making rapid progress collecting the data we lack. We’ll soon live in a world where we have the methods & compute to accelerate scientific progress or economic growth, but not the data. And we’re already there today: frontier models would surely be as good at accounting/many medical tasks/legal advice as they are at software engineering if we only had the same pretraining & RL coverage as we did for code. I really want to drill this in: The speed at which we automate the economy is going to be directly rate-limited by our ability to collect data about it. Worth noting that under this assumption, with data as defensible and directly proportional to economic & scientific progress, data should also be considered a national strategic asset like compute. Imagine what we’d do in a world where we had a Manhattan Project-effort for AI and needed to mobilize data collection as a limiting factor. We should be concerned about China, with greater state capacity and authoritarian economic control, being capable of mobilizing data collection at national scale, potentially compounding their economy and scientific output faster than us down the line. A Stargate for data I’m leaving my complete ideas for a future post, as this one is already far too long, so I’d really like to pose the question here. Stargate exists because we organized trillions of dollars, international strategy, gigawatts around compute as a fundamental ingredient. What would equivalent ambition look like for data? Obviously, scaling data collection, a heterogeneous mass of information across the economy, isn’t going to be as clear as scaling compute, as a homogenous infrastructural effort. A core division will be first, coverage — all uncaptured knowledge sitting across the economy/science/physical world and all that simply isn’t recorded — and, secondly, sheer volume in the domains we already train on: more hard math tasks, more high-quality web text, way more coding data, more legal drafts, etc. I have a post coming soon which breaks down my proposals. There’s a lot of room for creativity. Quickly, we’ll probably want to start with a deep census of what we have and what we’re missing, predict what the 2030 model will still be bad at and work backward to what we should be collecting today. You can probably license a large amount, leveraging high lab valuations to buy datasets or companies altogether. There’s an adversarial nature to a lot of this collection with firms, so there’s lots of engineering to do this correctly. We should go convince important companies to turn off deletion policies, even if we’re not buying from them yet. Data flywheels in consumer products will be massive. Confidential training, government legislation for grant-funded research, running companies at a loss for their data, etc. We’re headed towards hundreds of billions in expenditure, national prioritization, and major data limitation on the horizon. We have a great opportunity to think creatively about what a megaproject for data would look like: How do we, deliberately this time, construct the next internet’s worth of data? Footnotes: [1]: I’ll probably soon publish my much longer post explaining my position on data efficiency and why the value of this data is still pretty high in most worlds regardless of new algorithms. [2]: The “AGI freeroll” bet: heads you win, tails ASI flips the world upside down anyways. [3]: We already see a glint of validation of this point, given the data market is strongly tilting towards ultra-high-quality agentic data, rather than unskilled labeling — niche expert workflows, live environments, and evaluations requiring increasingly obscure talent & knowledge — yet shows increasing, not decreasing, revenues.
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Today, Grass announced that it is rewarding network participants in USDC instead of its native token. Grass reached profitability near the end of last year, and is now in the unusual position of being able to compensate contributors directly from the revenue the network generates. To me, this represents an important milestone. A network should eventually graduate from subsidized growth to a self-sustaining economy. Token incentives are a powerful tool for bootstrapping supply, but they should not become a permanent substitute for real demand. The end state was never "pay people with tokens forever." The end state is a business with customers, cash flow, and a network whose participants are compensated because the underlying service creates real economic value. We're still early in that journey, and there's an enormous amount of work ahead of us. But today feels like an important step, and it makes me incredibly excited for what's next.
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