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Robert Sags
@RobertSagurton
Enabling deterministic experiences @fogo @baranosai
2.2K Following    9.5K Followers
You guys have heard me say that I believed @Lighter_xyz had the lead when it came to optimizations of the matching engine for perps. Lots of that has to do with their offchain matching engine, being an L2, HFT experience, smart decisions, etc. However, with the recent @doublezero and @TheHUB optimizations – Hyperliquid now has a chance to level the playing field in this area – even as an L1 with consensus. Anybody who cares about HL staying on top should consider these partners. And great to see the whole space better optimized to compete with CEX’s and TradFi.
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All this talk about zero fees 👇
Stop paying your on-chain taxes @fogo just hit a new 7-day low in average transaction fees at just $0.0000002392 The greatest on-chain trading experience starts when execution costs are basically invisible 📊
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Always wondered what was behind all the excitement in Korea around crypto. Was cool to get into the weeds on this on my recent conversation with @JdotHamilton from @HoloHive_ on Proof of Story on how Korean culture shapes crypto adoption. Kinda similar to Brazil, people are naturally open to new opportunities, and when combined with a unified culture, it kinda spreads faster than other places. Good reason to keep the focus there. Stay tuned for another IRL visit to Seoul. Check out the full podcast now over on @ProofOfStory.
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“It also stores limit orders sorted by price and time” The space is maturing away from priority fees to PTP. How can we trust the clock, you ask? Timestamping of every packet is a key feature of @TheHUB and will be also be utilized by @ambient_finance for priority.
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There are ~5-10 key architecture decisions that make or break every large engineering system. A misstep in one of these decisions can lead to irrecoverable roadblocks for the product in the long term. @PhoenixTrade is not a software masterpiece, but it's the first truly viable fully on-chain perps smart contract on @solana because we made reasonable decisions in the most critical areas. Matching Engine The Phoenix matching engine handles trades atomically for all counterparties. This means that after a single transaction, the taker and maker positions are all fully updated to reflect the trade result. It also stores limit orders sorted by price and time. No other perps DEX on Solana in the past has ever supported both single-transaction matching AND price-time priority. We realized that this is not a pure tradeoff and made it the top priority in the matching engine design. While this may seem like a niche technical detail, price-based priority algorithms protect users by guaranteeing that they always get the best price to trade based on the state of the book. Non-atomic trade settlement also causes UX problems and operational problems. A delay in processing maker trades leads to more gas spent in the backend system and more latency in the UI. Users will remember a clunky trading experience even if they don't understand why. Efficient Market Maker Updates Phoenix has a special order type for professional market makers called "spline orders". At a high level, this order type allows market makers to configure the liquidity depth of the book at different offsets from a mid price and provides an entrypoint for efficiently updating the mid price of their orders. Due to the nature of the current Solana scheduler, the ability to update book orders with low computational overhead enables MMs to cancel and replace quotes with both high scheduler priority and low cost. This is a critical feature for Phoenix to support the deep liquidity necessary to offer a world-class trading experience. Risk Engine The margin system on Phoenix is completely decoupled from the matching engine because they fundamentally serve different purposes. The matching engine is functionally a fancy calculator that facilitates risk transfer between counterparties. The risk engine is a read-only check on the validity of these transactions. Phoenix's fully on-chain risk engine computes the required margin, liquidation status, total withdrawable balance, and free collateral all under Solana's tight computation constraints. There are even a handful of clever tricks in the margin math that make it impossible to withdraw funds or gain additional margin on positive uPnL on particularly illiquid assets, given the right configuration. The software separation between risk and matching enabled the team to easily reason about the behavior of both complex systems in isolation and, as a result, made the system easier to reason about and easier to update. These properties ultimately reflect in the end user's trading experience and (ideally) protect the exchange. Conclusion Other major technical decisions made Phoenix possible as a pure engineering feat, but these were a handful that I think uniquely demonstrate why system-level decision-making is so important. If we didn't figure out any one of the above designs, the end-user experience of Phoenix would be meaningfully worse, and the team's ability to improve on the product would be meaningfully weakened. Any system hoping to build serious financial products needs to bring the same level of care and decision-making to all of the core software components. For Phoenix in particular, this meant thoroughly understanding what it took to not only build a functional and efficient exchange but also fitting that design to the constraints imposed by the Solana smart contract environment.
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First step? Creating space. If people still (wrongly) believed Solana was well positioned and Hyperliquid was ngmi LT, @fogo wouldn’t make sense to anyone. Reality has set in, the environment is ripe, time to execute.
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We’re all competing with the (value accrual) back to hyperliquid:native Even after your perps DEX gets traction – where does the value go?
To token or not to token? Tokens make the crypto world go round. Even a CEX like Binance wouldn’t be where it is without binancecoin:native Not feeling a perps DEX with no integrated token utility/incentive tbh (even if designed around the L1 token).
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Daily reminder that there’s another option in SVM if you’re just no longer “feeling it”. @fogo
Taking a break from crypto here to talk smuggling cocker spaniels to South America…
I guess you’re only as good as the last experience you’ve enabled. The reason @chameleon_jeff now getting all the (deserved) praise. If the last experience was net extractive to users and most got rekt? Of course you’re going to be on here trying to redeem.
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Wow. What’s even cooler is the average retail trader having these agents at their fingertips to execute with.
Ken Griffin went home on a Friday "fairly depressed" after watching AI agents at Citadel do work that used to take teams of PhDs in finance months to complete. Done in days. His words: "These are not mid-tier white collar jobs. These are extraordinarily high skilled jobs being automated by agentic AI." This is the head of one of the most successful hedge funds in history saying the people he pays seven figures to analyze markets and structure deals are being replaced by software that works in hours instead of months. Not theoretically. In his own office. Right now. The Coatue deck we covered earlier this week called agents "the biggest unlock" in AI. Griffin just confirmed it from the buy side. The shift from copilots to agents is not a future event. It is already happening at the highest levels of finance.
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“HL needed around half a year to reach a TOTAL of $10M OI and almost a full year to hit $100M” Been looking for this one. Takes time to build volumes.
Hyperliquid bulls canceled me for this tweet So let’s talk facts: 1. OI While BTC open interest on HL is $2.3B, Phoenix sits at just $2M (around 1000x smaller) But context matters: Phoenix is still in closed beta HL needed around half a year to reach a TOTAL of $10M OI and almost a full year to hit $100M 2. Fees - Phoenix Opening/Closing: 0.035% (Taker) - HL Opening/Closing: 0.045% (Taker) For commodities, HL fees go up to 0.09% (Taker) That means Phoenix is at least 20% cheaper on roundtrip trades. For commodities, it can be up to 6x cheaper while funding rates stay relatively similar 3. Spread Phoenix already has some of the tightest spreads on Solana at around 0.011% HL is still roughly 10x tighter with spreads around 0.001% That said, slippage on Phoenix is currently much higher too 4. @toly bull posting Phoenix Jeff and Xulian cold dmed hundreds of people, promoted HL in NFT Discord servers, and more There’s nothing wrong with being a salesman for your own product or ecosystem I respect both Jeff and someone like Toly, who could literally spend all day drunk somewhere in the Bahamas but still chooses to push Solana builders So what’s better currently? Obviously HL (and yes, I love HL) Lower fees are nice, but these things matter more: - liquidity depth - spread quality - latency - order book resilience - user retention - trading tools, etc. Phoenix is still in baby shoes. You can’t expect a protocol in closed beta to operate at the same level as HL already And competition is healthy for the space If you genuinely believe in crypto and mainstream adoption, do you really think there will only be one perps platform? Every major industry has multiple winners And I believe Phoenix has what it takes to compete with HL in the coming months or years In the end, this was never really about fees themselves It was about how effectively you can market and generate maximum engagement for the underlying protocol And judging by the reactions… it worked
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The reason I’m finding the discourse on Phoenix so uninteresting is: there’s little discussion of the problem they’re uniquely solving as the (capable) team’s message is being drowned out in all the back and forth. Hyperliquid’s success was due to the team solving a major problem of historically poor onchain trading experience. They solved the problem, and the traders flocked there – without the need for a coordinated shill. Along the same lines, @kdotcrypto talks often about the detailed execution and margin problems that @bulktrade is solving – which resonates, and the reason I’m a fan and pay attention. You can listen to my interviews with @0xdoug about the problems he will solve with Ambient – as well as us talking about the problems @TheHUB solves which takes the HL CoLo optimizations to the next level. (Don’t see anybody offering true CoLo at 7 microseconds, time stamping, and multi-cast in one package – unique problem solving.) Whereas Phoenix is: “Give Phoenix a spin because we need it to be successful for Solana to redeem itself from the mess we’re in with perps and for us to prosper?” I guess you’re either solving a problem or activist influencing a potential success to justify a narrative (on its heels). Probably doing the team at Phoenix a bit of a disservice here tbh as their message getting lost in the mix.
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Being a first mover is a blessing and a curse – especially with a network that you don’t completely control. New entrants gather recent data points on activity, economic models, security, competitors, regs, etc and can make smarter decisions… while often your network got too big or decentralized to adjust to these new facts. The downside of decentralizing too fast and maturity. Might be that tomorrow’s leaders are still in the decisioning phase and taking it all in…
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Not afraid to be wrong and hard pivot. First priority fees, now $USDC. 🫡 Also gives a strong data point that trying to force feed a new alt stable doesn’t work. Traders get comfortable with a primary stable, network effect kicks in, and the rest is USDHistory.
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Excited to see everyone come together for this historic moment. AQAv2 brings the protocol-aligned stablecoin model that @Nativemarkets trail-blazed to USDC with @Coinbase and @Circle's commitment to Hyperliquid. The community no longer has to choose between liquidity and alignment. Our industry will face adversity as we continue to grow. It gives me hope seeing titans of the industry come together to build for users and bring all of finance onchain.
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A recent conversation with @mdomcahill makes one thing clear: the future is increasingly 24/7, and the data layer has to keep up. 98% of the volume on HIP-3 is powered by @PythNetwork, that’s 16 BILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS in the past week. The data speaks for itself. Check out the full podcast now over on @proofofstory
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Maximizing for value accrual to validators/stakers downstream is futile if all the value has moved to a competitor given their smarter L1 design tradeoffs. Gotta win the front office before the back office decisions matter.
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When you build a SVM compatible L1 that’s 10x faster than Solana without all the technical debt and cultural toxicity – you’re naturally going to differentiate. As you see on the TL, there’s lots of frustrated builders traders on that deserve an alternative. Many left and have found a home on Hyperliquid. Fogo is the differentiated alternative that keeps them in the SVM family. Don’t want to build on Fogo but want to optimize like the best of them? Join @TheHUB Keep enjoying, as I won’t stop differentiating.
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For Sagurton enjoyers, he's currently on track in May to mention "Solana" more than the chain he runs — the first time this phenomenon has occurred since August 2025. Currently at 2x. Data here:
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I spent the weekend talking to validators, traders, and other people about the priority fee situation on Hyperliquid. What it really exposed is that toxic flow and how you manage it are some of the biggest factors in whether a perp tech works at scale. That’s why I think Fogo, Ambient perps, and TheHUB matter. The goal is to build a better environment before launch, not patch over issues after the fact.
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These guys continue to kill it in all conditions. Nothing but good experiences working with @humidifi 👏