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Brett Caughran
@FundamentEdge
Training Humans at Fundamental Edge Training Agents at Fundamental Research Labs
4.6K Following    63.3K Followers
Sometimes i miss running a portfolio, then my mock portfolio has a day where I lose 160bps in a day and 37/40 of my shorts go up in a day. And then I don’t miss it as much…
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POV: Healthcare investors waking up this morning and looking at their PNL
Very fun to have @GuangyuRobert on the Invest With AI podcast to discuss the @Fundamental story and what we plan to build with The Digital Investor stack at Fundamental Research Labs. Inside the episode: - 1,000 AI agents in Minecraft that organized a search party on their own - Why going viral wasn’t enough to make Shortcut work - Why hedge fund analysts, not everyday Excel users, became the core customer - The case for one agent that manages your other 50 - Why today’s models fold the moment you push back - What it takes to build an agent that holds a real investment view TIMESTAMPS [00:00] Intro [00:43] Why Robert Wanted to Build AI Before It Was Popular [08:40] Running an MIT Lab and Questioning the Work [14:05] The Agent Research That Pushed Him to Leave [19:20] Project Sid: Building a Society of 1,000 Agents [22:18] The Search Party Nobody Programmed [26:58] From Minecraft to Excel Agents for Wall Street [33:05] Going Viral Wasn’t Enough: Making Shortcut Work [37:28] Why Hedge Fund Analysts Became the Customer [41:51] From an Excel Agent to an Investment Team [45:51] Why Nobody Wants to Manage 50 Agent Threads [50:12] How Close Are We to a Digital Hedge Fund Analyst? [53:52] The Problem with AI That Always Agrees [56:50] Teaching an Agent to Hold an Investment View [1:04:29] When Analysts Start Working More Like PMs [1:06:29] Brett’s Role: Training the Digital Analyst [1:09:07] If AI Frees Up Your Time, Where Does It Go? [1:11:34] What This Means for FE and Invest with AI
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Fundamental Research Labs Names Brett Caughran Chief Growth Officer to Help Build the AI Stack for Fundamental Investors -
This quote from Steve Mandel makes me think about why frontier LLMs are still terrible stock pickers (once you give them a clean sandbox adjusting for lookahead and contamination) even as they conquer frontier mathematics. And are likely to continue to be terrible stock pickers. (I believe this will be particularly true around points of regime change and "n of 1" events in markets...the times when the best human investors drive real separation and retail/consensus/momentum players get washed out). Frontier LLMs are deterministic optimizers trained on verifiable-reward RL to find one checkable, binary answer. And they are getting incredibly good at it (see: Navier-Stokes). But RL-tuned LLMs fundamentally suffer from premature convergence, like a junior analyst who develops "conviction" after 3 hours of work... (if you have managed over-confident junior analysts, you know this can be quite frustrating) The fundamental challenge, per Steve Mandel framing below, is that stock picking has no verifiable reward at the decision point. A good thesis can lose money and a bad thesis can make money (though the market gods tend to hand investors the former far more often than the latter...). And that over-confident junior analyst has a way of getting lucky the first time or two (i don't make the rules). Frontier LLMs have been optimized to collapse uncertainty and generate a definitive, coherent final answer to maximize confidence metrics. This is fundamental to the system, and bigger training runs just make the system better at this job. But fundamental investing is ultimately a game of making predictions where investors must embrace & price uncertainty, think probabilistically, and update those views dispassionately as the evidence changes. This doesn't take frontier-math capabilities, in fact it takes almost no math at all, but it takes the right way of thinking about distributional asymmetry. Lately have become fascinated with this idea of pricing distributional asymmetry, more to come on that (and love to share notes with any AI-pilled people working on this problem).
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intelligence comes in many forms Steve Mandel (Lone Pine): "But one thing that we've learned, or I've learned, is people can be unbelievably smart, but if they're very linear thinkers, they will never work as an analyst. We are always dealing in shades of grey, probabilities. If somebody has to know the answer, like to a math problem or whatever, if they have to know the answer, there is never the answer in our world. And so those people can be incredibly smart and might be winning Nobel Prizes or whatever, but they can't work in our world because our world is all about probabilities and weighing outcomes. And if that makes you uncomfortable, it's just not the work for you."
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Congrats to SharpeShooters, Ayush Bobra (Princeton) and Ambilu Sivabalan (Cornell), on winning the 4th Annual Wharton Investment and Trading Group x Fundamental Edge Stock Pitch Competition with their $CPRT short. All five finalist decks are now up, free, at the link below. 1. SharpeShooters (Princeton/Cornell): Short $CPRT 2. New Line Capital (Wharton): Short $ABNB 3. Credit Capital (Georgetown): Long $BROS High Gamma (University of Florida): Short $SIG Cavalier Capital (University of Virginia): Short $COCO Thanks to @AlphaSense for sponsoring. I continue to be insanely impressed by the talent of the top undergraduate teams. May the kids are going to be alright...
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Great analysis on $CRWV situation by Alex
Enjoyed putting together this overview of $CRWV credit earlier this week. Full slide deck is available for download in the quoted post. The backlog runoff analysis on page 14 of the deck is helpful for framing the unsecured parent-level credit bet here, which is by no means straightforward. Being long the unsecured, you have to believe that CoreWeave deploys cash flow from its active backlog in an accretive matter (both in terms of project-level cash equity investment and parent-level corporate cost spend which is significant). Equity bet is even more difficult here, as combination of (i) NPV of value created via incremental projects won + (ii) residual value of GPUs post customer contract expiries, net of (iii) dilution via any incremental equity/converts issuance, needs to be worth more than $33.4B (market cap at the time of this analysis). Can CoreWeave (and neoclouds generally) capture this much value or will their swing capacity role diminish over time? Is CoreWeave equity the best way to express a bullish view on compute? Imo, very difficult questions to answer. *Not investment advice. For educational purposes only.
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Still dialing in the post-print check-in (still does dumb things like assume street price-targets matter), but if you want to see the output that dropped in my GrokBot, here you go:
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Still dialing in the post-print check-in (still does dumb things like assume street price-targets matter), but if you want to see the output that dropped in my GrokBot, here you go:
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Trying to take my own advice on this (despite being busier with work than I have been in a long time) They say necessity is the mother of invention, and I refuse to be an absentee father. I have become extremely agent-pilled with Grok Bot out of necessity…to be able to be productive even while being present with family is a such an immense gift. For example, I was able to build 1,000 from scratch financial models and 84 version 1.0 sector Skill packs from my phone on Fall Break in Tokyo. Pretty cool.
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We tell young people in our society that end of the rainbow is retirement at 65. We ought to tell them that "there is going to be this short but beautiful golden window from roughly age 3 to roughly age 12 where your kids are not only easy (comparatively to bottles & diapers), but are going to be these beautiful little creatures and it will pain your heart to be away from them for too long. So, prepare in your 20's, financially and career wise, to build that flexibility into that chapter of your life". You don't get another shot at living the "golden window". And, for me, leaning hard into that golden window has made everything else in my life feel fairly insignificant in comparison. I have made plenty of mistakes as a father, but what I won't have is the regret of having been distracted and absent from these formative years. In some cases, that has required financial sacrifices (declining a particular career opportunity that would have required relocation), but I personally have zero regrets. I also hear from some ambitious & successful people with a 4 year old that say "I've lost my ambition, I am so immersed in fatherhood". At least for me, and a number of my friends, it comes back. You can't keep an ambitious person down and if you have the fire, hanging at a playground on too many Tuesday afternoons is going to feel like torture after too long. My three boys are approaching 13, 11 & 9, and it's much different than 7, 5 & 3. This summer, for example, they slept until 11am and I hard an unencumbered 6am-12pm to work (being on PT helps), then got another great window 7-11pm, but was able to be present in the heart of the day, then weeks when they were at basketball camp, etc. It gets easier, your time frees up again (there's a sadness to that too), but I'm back to working as intensely as I did pre-kids just because my day to day presence requires fewer hours than it did before (also, my wife is just superbly wonderful). And that is the beautiful gift of entrepreneurship (or at least my sort of business), the ability to deliver still a high level of output but work that around your life rather than the opposite. TLDR, grind before, and grind after. Prepare for the golden window.
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“The only alpha is the stuff that's in people's heads.” — Sagar Kadakia What happens when AI can conduct 50 expert interviews in a week? @FundamentEdge Brett Caughran and @khemaridh sit down with @S_Kadakia , founder of Qualitate, to discuss how AI is changing primary research and what this means for investors. We discuss: - The future of expert networks - Scaling expert interviews with AI - Automating channel checks and primary research - Research quality, compliance, and human judgment - Whether AI will commoditize investment alpha - Where investors will find their next competitive edge As Sagar puts it, “It's ultimately what they do with that information.” Watch the full episode here:
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Fundamental Edge hosted our fourth annual Wharton Investment & Trading Group stock pitch competition yesterday. The format was 10 minutes of presentation & 5 minutes of judge Q&A. Traditionally, to prepare as a judge, I will spend 1-2 hours per name getting up to speed so I at least know what questions to ask. I have been a bit busy lately, so wasn’t as prepared as I would have liked. So I fired up a Bot. Grok Bot is so snappy now that it can record audio of the live pitch on my IPad, then give me the counter-pitch, a list of key variables and the bull/bear. It did a terrific job at finding the research & logic flaws in the pitches, and giving me ideas on pushing back in Q&A. Of course I don’t agree with every observation from the Bot, but I found it shockingly incisive. This need some refining, but we are going to share this structure in Analyst Academy for our aspiring analysts. Ahead of an interview: - Prepare Grok Bot with the Fundamental Edge Pitch Evaluation Skill - Upload your Excel model, pitch (word or PPT) and research dossier - Turn on live record in Grok, and pitch the idea for 10 minutes - Ask the questions and pushback generated by the Bot - Record again, answering those questions - Ask, “how did I do?”, what research was incomplete, where did i make illogical flaws, where could my pitch improve - Iterate your pitch, and try again? - (Skill can be customized to the specific fund with a 13F distillation overlay) With other customizations, I would have found this very helpful when I range a large team at a multi, particularly when evaluating pitches way out of my core depth (biotech, in particular, I struggled to evaluate). I encourage you to try this! Both on the “junior learning to sharpen pitches” and on the “PM looking to sharpen pitch evaluation” side.
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The Gilded Cage has already been dissolving, and I believe AI will further accelerate this trend. I feel fortunate to have had my Tyler Durden moment early, and come out the other side (it was messy and tumultuous at times, so I don't want to dismiss the seriousness of major life transitions) I feel like I will have many things to say about this over the coming years, but if you fall into this bucket, I just have a few pieces of advice. 1) Work now to reduce your fixed costs and build personal runway. This will or will not feel like life or death to the degree that you have financial flexibility. 2) Learn to get quiet and adopt a practice of doing what feels most exciting in the moment. This is super counterintuitive to high achievers who are used to sacrificing in the name of corporate profit. But my mantra is ”the way that it feels is the way that it goes” and your bliss activated has a mystical way of guiding you to the right next thing. 3) read like crazy. If you read enough of the right books, you'll realize that we live in a benevolent universe that is here to support you at every step. That life is happening for you, not to you. But as a player in the simulation, Learning to press the right buttons and make the right commands makes all the difference. The universe does not reward passivity. Water finds its level, and the level of your consciousness will be deterministic of your life experience. Done right, these major life transitions will be major accelerants in the level of your personal consciousness and collectively our collective consciousness. Which I believe is the entire point of the simulation.
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I'm in my 40s. The most scared/disoriented people in my network are the ones that have the following resume => went to an Ivy League school, went into consulting for Bain or BCG or investment banking for a bulge bracket bank then MBA at Harvard/Stanford and then career progression in high income tech W2 or hedge funds/private equity. A number of these individuals in the last 5 years have been unexpectedly let go in their early 40s with 2-3 kids in private school and a burn rate they socially struggle to walk away from (kids have close friends now, business connections at the private school their kids go to, living in a high cost location makes it easier to network, etc). These are the people literally have only been told they are excellent their entire lives and now are in year 3-4 (no exaggeration) of trying to land a new job. Some are willing to "settle" for working for mid 6 figures (some even less) just to cover their burn rate with a young family. AI probably makes this dynamic happen earlier in one's career going forward for some of these perfect resumes individuals. Good chart from @Jack_Raines in his book Young Money
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Hard to know for sure, but this feels right to me. The alpha isn't in post-training the model; it's in the execution harness and skill layer orchestrating it. Hard part is the proprietary Evals and modularizing the Skill architecture to give the system incisive judgment and make it feel intuitive to use.
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I unfortunately think superforecasting teams who are post training open weight models are going to get modelmogged by frontier labs that are obviously also working on forecasting benchmarks.
How AI Generates Alpha: Story To Numbers $META In this instance, a well-calibrated system can accelerate speed to insight with a probability-adjusted NPV of just $17/share vs. the initial move of $164. Subsequently, stock gave back almost all of the Muse move. Armed with a system like this, investors can make better, more refined decisions on market-implied NPV of product & news outcomes (for educational & illustrative purposes only)
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Fully agree with this. I have been experimenting with LLMs for investment research since ChatGPT 3.5 came out in November of 2022. The time-spent-to-investment-research-insights-generated ROI has been AWFUL. The vast majority of the outputs have not exceeded the hedge fund quality threshold. And it is so difficult to build a coherent end to end system with prompts/skills, context, memory, etc, not to mention making it sharable across teams. Over the last few weeks, I built a comprehensive Digital Analyst plug-in (inspired by the workflows in Analyst Academy), connected my MCPs, built 1,000 Excel models, and run it all with Grok Bot. It's wild. I'm sold. The future is here: long running, persistent & proactive agent that you treat like a real team member, that learns from your interactions. Tons of kinks to iron out, but I believe the ROI on AI investment (time & tokens) for fundamental investors is set to increase meaningfully.
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Gavin Baker says Grok Bot is the most impactful AI product he and his firm have had yet, and reveals he’s up to 17 Grok Bots “I mean, as a user, Grok Bot is the most impactful AI product to me and to the firm that we’ve had yet. I glued together all this stuff with Claude Code, and I’m sure it was user error on my part, you know, 50 years old. I’m doing my best." "But Grok Bot, it just makes it so easy. I think I’m up to like 17 Grok Bots. And every day I think of a new one to add.”
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Very much captures my recent experience with investment research workflows. Not yet production grade in the finance vertical, but Grok Bot with a vertical AI Excel API, connected with my Skills Pack is *finally* showing me what's possible with agents for investment research. It is quickly shifting from a concept spec on a power-point slide to something that's actually doing real research. I believe many priors of "LLMs don't work for hedge fund style research" will fall over the next 6-12 months (already happening with Excel workflows). @levie: "Now with computer use, long running agents, harness improvements and surrounding infrastructure, we’re finally at a point where we can start to apply agents at more complex workflows"
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This is correct. The vast majority of enterprise workflows have not actually had agents applied to them in any meaningful way. The economy probably has this deployed < 1% right now. At best you have a few automated systems in a company that do a single pass of an LLM to make a decision or provide feedback, but very little real “automation”. Some of this is a statement about the adoption rates of technology in enterprises, but the vast majority of it is really just due to the capability of AI itself. That’s all changing. Now with computer use, long running agents, harness improvements and surrounding infrastructure, we’re finally at a point where we can start to apply agents at more complex workflows. We will see self-improving systems that can take any particular workflow goal and improve the execution rates over a volume of instances. And with the emerging form factor of agent swarms, you can just choose to deploy any amount of compute at a problem and agents will off and do the work. This won’t be about and users prompting agents to complete a specific task for them, but instead the organization reengineering the underlying workflows to take advantage of agents in their processes. This will have a massive impact in finance, life sciences, healthcare, and other information-heavy domains. Lots of opportunity to build and deploy these systems right now.
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$ANT IPO Primer I used my /FE-IPO-primer skill today to turn the Anthropic S1 into a 121 page IPO primer. Is it slop? It has its moments. It certainly isn't passing the "Sell-Side Turing Test" where an investor could believe this was written by Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs (but, I persist in trying!). Opus 5.5 still doesn't quite read like a smart, finance-literate human. And Opus has some super odd stock picking tendencies (such as if a key metric hits threshold in one quarter, it "falsifies" the bull case. Umm, no, that's dumb). But take a read yourself. It's a free download at this link. Even better, DM or e-mail me feedback on how to improve it. I hope you find at least some of it useful.
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the prior in my mind is Open Claw >>> Instinct It took roughly 9 months to compress a complicated developer primitive into an ambient consumer product that a 10 year old can use with no training. I effectively now run my personal life on Instinct (with my wife and two oldest sons in a trusted network. It's so cool and reduced so much execution friction in our lives, not to mention added a lot of fun). In finance the shape of abstraction will be different, but it seems clear the same thing will happen. Progress is already being made. The hacker era will end, and the bottleneck will be organizational systems, not technical literacy. The right investing AI substrate is intuitive enough that a boomer PM can use it out of the box. Just like my 10 year old can pick up Instinct and "it just works."
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I think this advice is not as true anymore: 1) the durable skill behind “using AI better” Is unclear as AI gets easier to use 2) Increasingly, organizational systems bottleneck AI gains not individual workers 3) The effect on jobs is uncertain but may impact entire job categories
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very much resonates with my observations
“Increasingly, organizational systems bottleneck AI gains not individual workers” Yup. At this point, in most every company that does ‘knowledge work’ - there are pockets of folks who are AI-pilled and know how to use these tools effectively. With the right nudges and processes, these folks could lead the charge forward. But In most orgs, they are gated by organizational inertia. It’s much easier for orgs to do what they’ve always done, because inertia is hard to overcome. Incentives are a thing, and so are engrained organizational dynamics. This is yet another manifestation of the “No one ever got fired for buying IBM." idea. This is why I’ve always believed what Mollick has written from the beginning. The only way to make this work effectively is to have a both bottoms up and top down approach. You definitely need folks at the top who understand that to make this thing work, it’s not just a technical problem. Those leaders need to know that lots of priors have to be re-thought, and lots of things their org takes for granted (processes, org structures, how folks work together, who needs to be on the ship) - had to be burnt down. Innovators dilemma on steroids
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